Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the Mediterranean

Snigbert · Post by **Snigbert** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:37 am

Some nitpicking here. From my visit to "Big Mamie" I recall that Jean Bart scored no hits in this engagement. Actually Mamie was hit by an 8-inch shell fired by a shore battery which penetrated the main deck and exploded in a berthing space

I stand corrected, henceforth. And I hope you enjoyed your stay in beautiful Taxachusetts.

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:08 am

I think the best Jean Bart could do was some near misses.

Veer · Post by **Veer** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:03 pm

Originally posted by pasternakski
I like it. I like it a lot. Don't go and hide.

I think that the ground combat part can be more sophisticated, though. The German first lift was only about 3+ divisions, even in their most ambitious plan. Most British defenses would have been pretty static, with only a small mobile component. The whole thing, if the landing had taken place, would have lived or died on the beaches and in the ports.

You talk about a game where mine warfare would be vital!

Yoo-hoo! Veer! Come back, Veer!

Glad, you liked it! I wasn't hiding, just watching out for those tomatos;) .
Anyway, I didn't mean the ground combat would have to be unsophisticated; just that the Axis player wouldn't have to drive his Panzers all the way to London. Essentially as I saw it, all the German player would have to do is get X number of troops into England, with X number of supplies by X date to win. Similar to the autovictory conditions we now have in UV. I agree that all the fighting would take place on or near the beach, but this static warfare is something that UV can handle adequately.

I was thinking maybe of 2 senarios. 1st would be the historical varient. Start in June '40 and last till Nov '40. While a short time span, their would be lots of action becasue of the number of units each side would contain. Britain would have in excess of 1000 aircarft, germany 2000+, Britian would have 20 divisions, Germany atleast 40 earmarked for the inavsion. Plus most of the Royale Navy and whatever the Germans can scrape up.

2nd Seanrio would be a hypothecial '42 seanrio. This requires some fudging of history, so lets assume some things:
i. Germany finished off Russia in '41. Stalin sued of peace or was killed/diposed so Germany was able to move the bulk of her army and airforce to the West.
ii. Becasue of the early/quick victory in the East, Germany was able to devote more resources to her airforces and thus was stronger in the air in '42 than she was historically.
iii. America and Japan enetered the War as historical.
iv. The Germans did not lose half their Navy in the Norway operation, plus the Bismark returned to Norway after her engagement with the 'ood for repairs and thus was not sunk. Germany would thus have an adequate Surface fleet by '42.
v. With Japans entry in the War the Royal Navy is streched & at it's weakest, along with the fact that the Battle of the Atlantic is in a crucial stage.
vi. America is busy in the south pacific (:D) and while she can send some equipment to Britian, Naval and troop help is not forthcoming.
vii. Both sides cut down on North Africa commitments. Some of Britians best units and airforces are withdrawn for home defense. The Germans also recalls Rommel and some of his best troops, leaving the Italians to deal with Malta.

This second senario will run form early May '42 to Nov '42. Victory conditions for the Germans will be similar, but ofcourse they will have to ship many more divisions than in '40. In air the two forces should be equally balanced, but by now the Germans will have radar, as well as the FW-190 meaning that the Spit will now be outclassed. Should be a tough fight.

The only problem is how to modify the map. Also the hexes would have to changed from 30sq miles to 15sq miles. How big is that Channel anyway?

Veer · Post by **Veer** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:08 pm

Originally posted by Drex
I think the best Jean Bart could do was some near misses.

The Vichy French BB's were OLD BB's. The Italian BB's had been designed to counter them. So they sort of ranked last of all the BB's in WW2. By '42 I doubt they were good for much except propoganda.

LargeSlowTarget · Post by **LargeSlowTarget** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:32 pm

Originally posted by Snigbert
I stand corrected, henceforth. And I hope you enjoyed your stay in beautiful Taxachusetts.

LOL! I enjoyed my stay in MA, indeed. Fortunately it was too brief for the tax authorities to catch me

. Btw, I've even spent a couple of days at Worcester, visiting a friend at WPI. Nice city with an attractive campus - compared to Buffalo and UB-SUNY, where I spent the rest of my time... only highlights there are USS Little Rock and USS The Sullivans.

On the original topic, years ago I had a dream about a Med-adaption of Pacific War. I found another Pacwarrior with the same ambition. He used his contacts to - IIRC - Rich Dionne who provided us with a map- mod for the ETO, ranging from North Africa to Scotland and from Gibraltar to Syria.
I had already started to create the base network for the new map when we realized that this entire project was doomed from the start because bending the game engine to the requirements of the ETO was beyond our (or at least my) capabilities. Especially the "no surrender/retreat unless outnumbered 125:1"-rule for the Japanese didn't fit too well when applied to the Italian Army or the Germans.
Anyway, I still have the embryonic map-mod, if someone with more insight into coding etc. is interested to pick up the task (any legal issues here?) ... Hell, it may take years before a Med-game based on UV becomes available

.

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 7:40 pm

Originally posted by Veer
The Vichy French BB's were OLD BB's. The Italian BB's had been designed to counter them. So they sort of ranked last of all the BB's in WW2. By '42 I doubt they were good for much except propoganda.

Not the Jean Bart (Casablanca) or the Richilieu (Dakar), they were not yet completed so were actually modern. I'm not even sure if Jean bart had all her turrets. The Richilieu(along with the weather)successfully defended Dakar and foiled the invasion damaging a British cruiser that had to towed away by the Barham. Of course the French warships never got a chance to prove themselves as they were either trapped in harbor or interned.

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:52 am

Originally posted by LargeSlowTarget
... Hell, it may take years before a Med-game based on UV becomes available .

I don't think so......if anything I would be surprised if it was not ready for Xmas 2003. Think about it, all that has to be done really is the OOB, the map and some eye candy. Matrix already has the engine ready. The ONLY major hold up would be if they hit some large unexpected issues with WiTP.

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:50 pm

Read it and weep for joy guys.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Joel Billings
We do hope to do UV Med after WitP. Bomb Alley was always a favorite of mine (what carnage).

Joel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:01 pm

Can I order now?:D

Aztek · Post by **Aztek** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:09 am

Aye Bomb alley carnage was truely amazing. I really miss that game. North Atlantic 86 was good as well.

Many long hours spent in front of a smoking Apple IIc

My have we come a long way

Von_Frag · Post by **Von_Frag** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:08 am

Originally posted by Snigbert
That night fighter looks like it has a giant grenade pin on the underbelly of the fuselage. What happens when you pull the pin?

Thats the rubberband holder..............

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:41 am

Originally posted by Aztek
Aye Bomb alley carnage was truely amazing. I really miss that game. North Atlantic 86 was good as well.

Many long hours spent in front of a smoking Apple IIc

My have we come a long way

Its available on Winapple ya know

(apple IIe emulator)

Exciting news that Matrix/2b3 will develop this after WitP comes out. Now if only they can convince Gary to update Warship and Battlecruiser into one all-encompasing and modern tactical game of WWI and II naval surface combat

Joy..........

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 5:28 am

Originally posted by Nikademus
Now if only they can convince Gary to update Warship and Battlecruiser into one all-encompasing and modern tactical game of WWI and II naval surface combat

...and make the resulting game importable into the UV/WITP series as an optional way of fighting surface engagements...

Luskan · Post by **Luskan** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:57 am

I've invested some time into Hearts of Iron (same mob who did Europa Universalis etc.) and although it is an ok game (I forgot how many software companies ship products that are still WAY pre-beta after spending so much time here at Matrix - out 6 months and they've had 2 patches which improve the game about 5% - another 40% to go before I'll actually deem it ready for shipping and return to play it - not that I'm hung up about it really!) and couldn't help but think the German/Italian invasion of Malta, or the English loss of Gibraltar (loss and subsequent retaking of Crete) would be the best what-if battles to fight in such a game.

Scale would have to be much much smaller though IMO.

Ron Saueracker · Post by **Ron Saueracker** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:35 am

Originally posted by pasternakski
...and make the resulting game importable into the UV/WITP series as an optional way of fighting surface engagements...

Oh my God!!! That would rock, Magnum!!!:D

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:55 am

Hi, Just as UV is the small WITP prehaps the Med game could be used before making the European theatre 1939-1945:eek:

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 1:18 pm

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Just as UV is the small WITP prehaps the Med game could be used before making the European theatre 1939-1945:eek:

Hmmmm....it would be somewhat boring after say '43, not much German ships left to sink, just boring convoy work.

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:02 am

There are going to have to be a few new additions to UVMED such as laying mines fields from aircraft, and Midget subs are a must. (The Italians subs were not bad at all).

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:41 am

Originally posted by Raverdave
There are going to have to be a few new additions to UVMED such as laying mines fields from aircraft, and Midget subs are a must. (The Italians subs were not bad at all).

Don't forget those Italian frogmen, dude. Or those nasty German radio-controlled bombs. How are we gonna reproduce "Faith, Hope, and Charity?"

The list goes on and on ...

IanLister · Post by **IanLister** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:22 pm

How about torpedo attacks at night using ASV? The effect of Ultra on Allied air and sea operations?
No-one has mentioned it yet, I believe, but the air/naval operations around Crete in 1941 would be spectacular IF the game could somehow create the imperative nature of the evacuation. Then there's Pedestal, the second Sirte battle etc etc etc. And submarine operations in water as deep as that in the bath!

Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the Mediterranean

Re: Re: An Idea...

PacWar Med-mod

Re: PacWar Med-mod

Med

Re: Med

Some more thoughts on the matter

Re: Some more thoughts on the matter