SP: Civil War Teaser

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:23 am

Just another glimpse at progress....

The attached image shows a Confederate regiment marching in column down a road flanked by fields of tall corn. The fence to their left is a rock wall topped by a split rail fence. The fence to their right is a post and rail fence, although the image quality is such that it doesn't look that great (it actually looks much better). These are all custom icons.

More to come...

Regards,

David Boutwell

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:02 am

Incredible progress IMO!! Since no one has really gotten inside the Pandora's Box of SP programming, changing values with the Editor to get the de facto result you're shooting for is the best you can do. When Panzer Leo wanted to remove the arty casualty messages in H2H he ran into a similar stone wall (pun?)...there was no access to that part of the code. His solution was to change the position of the message boxes; a value that can be modified. They now display at the very top of the screen and the text within cannot be read...goal achieved.

Of course there's not a back door or workaround for everything, but maybe looking at some of these roadblocks from a different perspective will show alternative paths.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:04 am

" ...there were, no doubt, many instances of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore, I need to develop a weapon/weapons for these instances. Does anyone have any ideas?"

Cold steel. Bayonets and sabres. The "melee" feature would have to be a lot more user friendly than it is now, however.

While you are at it, I don't see how you can do an ACW module without a real Johnny Reb yell.

Bing

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:59 am

Originally posted by Bing
" ...there were, no doubt, many instances of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore, I need to develop a weapon/weapons for these instances. Does anyone have any ideas?"

Cold steel. Bayonets and sabres. The "melee" feature would have to be a lot more user friendly than it is now, however.

While you are at it, I don't see how you can do an ACW module without a real Johnny Reb yell.

Bing

I added "bayonet" to my units several days ago. I gave it a one hex range, and gave it a .wav file of melee combat from the Battleground Series. Sure enough, a Union company using AI attacked one of my Confederate companies, got into an adjacent hex, and all of a sudden, I heard this melee combat sound. I checked to see if melee had been initiated, but it had not. I suddenly realized what had happened. The Union company had used cold steel, or the threat of it, to force my Confederate unit to vacate the hex without melee combat. According to research, this is exactly what happened most of the time. documentation from medical reports indicates that few battlefield deaths were caused by the bayonet. So it wasn't the bayonet itself that made the other guy run. It was one guy with a bayonet and bigger balls than the other guy. In this confrontation I mentioned above, the Confederate unit lost 1 casualty, but ran all the same. That's just the way it should be. There's the threat "diplay" (Maori and Zulu warriors doing war chants, for example) that gives you the chance to hit the road with minimal or no losses. But if that doesn't do the trick, there's the actual melee function. Then someone is really gonna get hurt!

Regards,

David Boutwell

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:12 am

Originally posted by Bing
" ...there were, no doubt, many instances of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore, I need to develop a weapon/weapons for these instances. Does anyone have any ideas?"

Cold steel. Bayonets and sabres. The "melee" feature would have to be a lot more user friendly than it is now, however.

While you are at it, I don't see how you can do an ACW module without a real Johnny Reb yell.

Bing

I added "bayonet" to my units several days ago. I gave it a one hex range, and gave it a .wav file of melee combat from the Battleground Series. Sure enough, a Union company using AI attacked one of my Confederate companies, got into an adjacent hex, and all of a sudden, I heard this melee combat sound. I checked to see if melee had been initiated, but it had not. I suddenly realized what had happened. The Union company had used cold steel, or the threat of it, to force my Confederate unit to vacate the hex without melee combat. According to research, this is exactly what happened most of the time. documentation from medical reports indicates that few battlefield deaths were caused by the bayonet. So it wasn't the bayonet itself that made the other guy run. It was one guy with a bayonet and bigger balls than the other guy. In this confrontation I mentioned above, the Confederate unit lost 1 casualty, but ran all the same. That's just the way it should be. There's the threat "diplay" (Maori and Zulu warriors doing war chants, for example) that gives you the chance to hit the road with minimal or no losses. But if that doesn't do the trick, there's the actual melee function. Then someone is really gonna get hurt!

Regards,

David Boutwell

dfsrusa · Post by **dfsrusa** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:13 am

What's your ETA on this mod being available?

I'd given up hope on ever seeing it. Kudos to you for picking up the flag again.

Scot Stephenson

BORO · Post by **BORO** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:24 am

David,
Kudos from me as well for taking this long awaited project on. Can't help much other than to offer to playtest, which from the response I'm seeing will be the least of your worries. Keep the screenshots coming.
Boro:)

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:19 am

Scott, I have no idea when it will be finished. I don't really know what "finished will look like at this time. I am neck deep in the middle of modifying terrain icons, buildings ( I am downloading images of historical buildings from Civil War battlefields with the intention of reproducing specific building icons, for ex., Gettysburg Cemetery gatehouse, Trostle and Codori farmhouses and barns, McPherson Barn, Dunker Church, to name a few) and artillery icons. I havew numerous ideas about other things that I want to work on, but as Tracer can attest, modifying icons (all four zoom levels) is a lot of work. I have nearly perfected the procedure with those that I have started so far. In addition, I have to "paint" all of the new ones as jpegs before I convert them to shp icons. There is a lot of work, and I can only work on them when I have no other responsabilities around the house and with work. I am currently putting about three hours a day into the process. I don't know how long it will take. After I'm through with the icons, then, I will have to focus more on the OoB's. After that, I'll have to learn the process of "packaging" the mod. so that it can be downloaded by others.

I can tell you this, though. I will finish it! And I will do a good job of it. That is the only way, anyone will do anything more with it after I have gotten it as far as I can.

I have to say this though. I played around a little with some map editing, and the post and rail fence surrounding a nice, square field of corn next to a farmhouse, sitting next to a lane flanked by a rock wall sure looks cool. Everytime I work on something like that, I just have to purchase a regiment or two of Yanks and Rebs and have a little shootout!

BORO, I'll be sure and post a screenshot, periodically, just for you!

Regards,

David Boutwell

RockinHarry · Post by **RockinHarry** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:03 pm

David...did you abandon works on your Market Garden campaign?

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:35 am

Originally posted by RockinHarry
David...did you abandon works on your Market Garden campaign?

Harry,

No Way!! My Market Garden maps and books still clutter my office desk. I did, however need a break from WWII for a while, for reasons that I've harped on on numerous occasions.

This project allows me kind of take a journey back in time to the old days of SP1, when a lot of people in the community were pioneering new things in the game. It also allows me to focus my attention on doing some things that I really like to do.
1. Research 2. Icon design 3. OoB modification And, now, there are many more available tools than back in the old days, and I am much more knowledgeable about how to use them.

It has gotten to the point with SPWAW where I feel like I'm just working on projects for myself anyway. My philosophy about the game has put me on the fringe of the community, and therefore, I often am of the mindset that it doesn't really matter when I finish the Market Garden campaign. If I am doing it for myself only, there is no pressure to complete it any faster than I am comfortable with.

I kind of got wrapped up in the "competition hype" in the community, as well as trying to get my material out in front of every new guy that came into the community claiming to be this or that. I just needed a beak from all of that junk. So, when I have dt'd a bit, I will get back to the WWII projects. Not to worry. I still have lots of things to finish in the MG area.

Thanks for asking! You have definitely been instrumental in my learning to do a lot of the editing stuff that I am now using on SPCW.

Regards,

David Boutwell

dlazov · Post by **dlazov** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:56 am

David boutwell wrote:

I added "bayonet" to my units several days ago

David, when you say you added in the bayonet did you mean via the OOB or just the icon? I am researching a lot of WW1 lately and am in process of modding my own SPWW1. Just curious.

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:44 am

Originally posted by dlazov
David boutwell wrote:

David, when you say you added in the bayonet did you mean via the OOB or just the icon? I am researching a lot of WW1 lately and am in process of modding my own SPWW1. Just curious.

dlazov,

I added bayonet as a weapon in the OoB files. Bayonet is in the second slot of the weapons data, behind the main infantry weapon. I have not included "pistol", which would have been carried by higher ranking officers in a company, but that's about it. I figure that the offensive firepower of these few weapons is insignificant, and they probably would not have even been used in an offensive manner (defensively at close range, sure, but in the big scope of things, should that be accounted for!?) It sounds kinf of dumb to listen to a volley at close range and then have the pistol .wav file after that. It was more annoying than necessary....

Regards,

David Boutwell

RockinHarry · Post by **RockinHarry** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:18 pm

Originally posted by David boutwell
Harry,

No Way!! My Market Garden maps and books still clutter my office desk. I did, however need a break from WWII for a while, for reasons that I've harped on on numerous occasions.

This project allows me kind of take a journey back in time to the old days of SP1, when a lot of people in the community were pioneering new things in the game. It also allows me to focus my attention on doing some things that I really like to do.
1. Research 2. Icon design 3. OoB modification And, now, there are many more available tools than back in the old days, and I am much more knowledgeable about how to use them.

It has gotten to the point with SPWAW where I feel like I'm just working on projects for myself anyway. My philosophy about the game has put me on the fringe of the community, and therefore, I often am of the mindset that it doesn't really matter when I finish the Market Garden campaign. If I am doing it for myself only, there is no pressure to complete it any faster than I am comfortable with.

I kind of got wrapped up in the "competition hype" in the community, as well as trying to get my material out in front of every new guy that came into the community claiming to be this or that. I just needed a beak from all of that junk. So, when I have dt'd a bit, I will get back to the WWII projects. Not to worry. I still have lots of things to finish in the MG area.

Thanks for asking! You have definitely been instrumental in my learning to do a lot of the editing stuff that I am now using on SPCW.

Regards,

David Boutwell

thanks David! good to know Market Garden is not dead!:) Sidestepping to other new projects at times is a great refresher for creativity, I know that. Looking forward to anything you´re working on David!

good luck with SPCW

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:40 am

Gentlemen,

Here are two screenshots of some new terrain icons. The first is in response to a request for cotton fields. These will come in handy for scenarios in Missouri and the deep south (ie: Sherman's march through Georgia and the Vicksburg campaign battles). However, don't expect to see them in any of the Northern VA battles. Very little, if any cotton was grown this far north. And you sure won't see them in Gettysburg and Anteitam scenarios! The next screenshot is of some of the new boulder icons that I have created. Compare the new boulder icons in the middle to the old ones along the top row of boulders!!

Just imagine troops fighting in amongst these in a Devil's Den scenario!

Regards,

David Boutwell

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:41 am

Here's the boulders screenshot.

Enjoy,

David Boutwell

pops · Post by **pops** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:01 pm

FANTASTIC work!
I'm really admiring and looking forward to your work here!

sami heimola · Post by **sami heimola** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:40 pm

Great stuff David:D. Keep up a good work. How about doing some co-operation with Warhorse? Or are you going to handle everything alone;)?

Sami

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 8:14 pm

Thanks, Pops. It's really not as hard as it might seem, once you survive the learning curve.

Sami, I'm glad to finally know that you've seen what I've been doing with your mod. lately, and to know that I have your "blessing" on the work thus far. I hope that I gave you plenty of credit for your previous work. I would not have been as vocal on the shortcoming of the previous mod. if you had not identified them yourself, and stated that you hoped that someone would pick up where your group left off.

I think Warhorse has other "fish to fry". I really prefer to work on this alone, at this point. However, as I get further along on this project, and start working on fine-tuning things, and run into road-blocks, if anyone has any expertise in areas that I am having trouble with, I will not hesitate to seek their technical advice. I'm still waiting on people with those people to offer any assistance, though....

Hopefully, working alone will stream-line the process of constructing this mod., and avoid any pitfalls related to this that apparently hampered your group.

much more to come.

Regards,

David Boutwell

sami heimola · Post by **sami heimola** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:47 am

Originally posted by David boutwell
Thanks, Pops. It's really not as hard as it might seem, once you survive the learning curve.

Sami, I'm glad to finally know that you've seen what I've been doing with your mod. lately, and to know that I have your "blessing" on the work thus far. I hope that I gave you plenty of credit for your previous work. I would not have been as vocal on the shortcoming of the previous mod. if you had not identified them yourself, and stated that you hoped that someone would pick up where your group left off.

Nice to hear. Of course you get my "blessing" for own full mod. Alpha version was meant to anybody who likes to make it complete:p. I really appreciate your dedication.

I think Warhorse has other "fish to fry". I really prefer to work on this alone, at this point. However, as I get further along on this project, and start working on fine-tuning things, and run into road-blocks, if anyone has any expertise in areas that I am having trouble with, I will not hesitate to seek their technical advice. I'm still waiting on people with those people to offer any assistance, though....

OK. I understand your point. But isn't it easier and faster to advance from one thing to other? I mean if Warhorse could concentrate into menus (as he seems to do right now) and you into other stuff? This is just a proposal;)...

Hopefully, working alone will stream-line the process of constructing this mod., and avoid any pitfalls related to this that apparently hampered your group.

Yes this is true. But I was "forced" to accept every kind of help/helpers who I was ever willing to help me (if I would have any artistic "eye" and skills for editing all needed stuff, whole mod could been already ready ) ... That's why there were "too many opinions" from everybody about final form of mod (for example no "generic" OOBs and so on...). Hopefully your progress will be more easier (alone or not).

much more to come.

Regards,

David Boutwell

SP: Civil War Teaser

ETA

Can Cowboys & Indians be far behind