what ww2 equipment would still be good today

jerrek · Post by **jerrek** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 9:25 am

lets see if any ww2 equipment would still be of use on a modern battlefield.
mg42. good weapon bullets still kill and this weapon shot a lot of them, fairly reliable and light.

storch - this thing has amazing slow flight and takeoff capabilities.

sturmtiger - armour weak but the gun, the gun.

american .5 inch browning. lots of hitting power (but perhaps to heavy).

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 9:44 am

The Panzerwurfmine antitank grenade would still be quite effective against the top armour of most AFV's.

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://nwbattalion.tripod.com
E-mail nwbattalion@icqmail.com

panzerfist · Post by **panzerfist** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 9:56 am

how about an mg 42? this seems like a timeless weapon. as far as tanks, well, id think that anyn piece of armour would pale in comparison to our m1 abrams.

p/f/

USMCGrunt · Post by **USMCGrunt** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 10:20 am

Originally posted by jerrek:
lets see if any ww2 equipment would still be of use on a modern battlefield.
mg42. good weapon bullets still kill and this weapon shot a lot of them, fairly reliable and light.

storch - this thing has amazing slow flight and takeoff capabilities.

sturmtiger - armour weak but the gun, the gun.

american .5 inch browning. lots of hitting power (but perhaps to heavy).

Jerrek, just an FYI.

The Browning .50 caliber heavy machine gun is still around and still in use in the US military. It is now called the M2HB (Heavy Barrel) and with the exception of the heavier barrel, and the T&E (Traverse and Elevation)mechanism on the tripod, it has not changed drastically from the WW2 version. (The are still many parts in common between the 2 models.)

Also, the Thompson SMG and the M3A1 grease gun were used as recently as Vietnam by US forces. (My father carried the Thompson to supplement the M79 grenade launcher he carried.)

As to what I see as a still viable weapon, the M1 Garand still makes the grade. I have an original surplus M1 that was made in 1943 and never issued. I can still hold a 7 inch shot group at 500 yards with this rifle (Sorry 1stSgt, I'll work on bringing it down to 6") I also have to say that for reliablility, stopping power, and accuracy: I would have chosen it over the M16A2 that I carried in Desert Storm any day of the week. The M1 is also still in use worldwide in various guerilla groups.

Just because a weapon system is old, does not mean it is not effective or useless. A P47 Thunderbolt fighter is a formidible foe in a conflict where the other side has no airpower at all.

The best weapon to use in any given situation is the one you have, rather than the one you wish you had.

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USMCGrunt

-When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight.

KING · Post by **KING** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 12:54 pm

Molotov´s Coctail.
Simple and easy-to-do, even for child...

orc4hire · Post by **orc4hire** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 12:55 pm

The MG42 is still in use too; converted to NATO caliber and with a few other minor changes it still serves the German army as the MG1 (I believe that's the designation....)

CaptainBrian · Post by **CaptainBrian** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 2:24 pm

In 1990 I saw a USMC .50 cal which I am certain saw WWII service and destroyed two German vehicles or aircraft. It had two maltese crosses engraved on the top of the feed tray cover. Eleven years since, I have yet to see another with these markings.

Another classic WWII weapon still in widespread use is M-101 105mm Howitzer.

frank1970 · Post by **frank1970** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 3:01 pm

The kalashnikow is just a little modified German WW2 weapon!

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 3:04 pm

Originally posted by jerrek:

storch - this thing has amazing slow flight and takeoff capabilities.

Someone over here is manufacturing and selling a 3/4 scale replica of the storch.

Honest to god, I saw it do a 360 degree turn to pick up speed then swung out in a straight line and was up off the ground in about 10 or 15 feet, which was not much more than its wing span.

The replica has certainly inherited it's predecessor's short take off performance characteristics!!!

Reg.

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 4:41 pm

Originally posted by orc4hire:
The MG42 is still in use too; converted to NATO caliber and with a few other minor changes it still serves the German army as the MG1 (I believe that's the designation....)

MG-3 (to fit the designation of the G-3??)
- turned down rate of fire
- some materials changed

see: http://www.bundeswehr.de/bundeswehr/luftwaffe/mg3.html

.. is being replaced by the awful 5.56mm MG- .. dunno what is was

Greetings,
Arralen

bbbf · Post by **bbbf** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:54 pm

AK-47 is a modified MP44
M60 is based on MG42

.50 Cals, well they just keep on going.

WWII AFV's may not cut it against main line equipment, but how about a King Tiger or Jagdpanther vs a LAV, or a Bradley (minus TOW).

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 6:31 pm

1: M1911 Colt .45. I understand some were used in the Gulf.

2. Bren. Reworked for 7.62mm it still soldiers on in some armies. I used one in the '70's. Still a good performer.

3. Mauser 98k, Enfield .303, Sten, PaPasha. A lot of hand to mouth terrs use these when they can't get AKs. If it can fire a bullet, it's effective.

4. All the WW2 grenades would still work.

troopie

------------------
Pamwe Chete

jerrek · Post by **jerrek** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 8:59 pm

seems as if guns (rifles and mg) in particular have not been changed much. what major advances has there been in this field since ww2. Considering that the ak47 is easily one of the best assault rifles and is a mp44 i suppose not much.

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 9:12 pm

1- MG 42/MG3 (rechambered for 7.62 NATO and cyclic rate reduced)
2- 40mm Bofors (still around as 40mm/L70)
3- Colt .45 automatic
4- M2HB .50
5- Jeep
6- M3A2 halftrack (saw some in Israel a few years ago. Although not in frontline use)
7- StG 44
8- Walther P38
9- Browning Hi-Power 9mm

Igor · Post by **Igor** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 10:00 pm

P-51s are still being sold for military purposes; with new electronics, they make great counter-insurgency platforms. Until recently, Ju-88s were doing the same work; they could loiter forever...and there are still puddle jumper airlines out there which fly DC-2s.

Oh; and while the delivery methods and packaging have changed, not much has been updated in the basic gun barrel bomb...

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 10:23 pm

Well you folks have forgot the DshK 12.7 mm machin gun from 1938 . its still in cervice.
Its the most trustworthy heavy machingun.

orc4hire · Post by **orc4hire** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 10:36 pm

Jerrek,

You're quite right; advances in small arms have been very, very slight since about the mid 1930's. A bit of juggling with the mass/velocity part of the bullet end of things has allowed lighter weapons, but the additional ammo brings the total weight up to the same range (I own a Kar98 and a Chinese AK, and the AK is much heavier loaded). But it's a mature technology field and won't change much at all until a new propellent technology comes along.

So really, the answer to the original question is really 'anything that puts metal downrange.' :}

Jonathan1945 · Post by **Jonathan1945** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 10:41 pm

Hi,

Well, there's always the G11 and P90 -- something on the order of 50 rounds a clip, caseless, rounds designed to pierce armor; though admittedly it's not the difference between a bolt action and a semi-auto, it's still a bit of a difference.

orc4hire · Post by **orc4hire** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 11:28 pm

Sure, caseless ammo is an incremental improvement... if it worked. Didn't the German army finally decide not to adopt the G11 because it never did work quite right?
As for armor piercing, I've got some 7.62x39 steel cored soft point ammo that's not radical, but probably does about as good a job of piercing light armor.

Now, the FN 5.7mm looks interesting; they claim the pistol will penetrate a PASGET helmet at 240 meters.... Purely by accident, I'm sure, because there's no way anyone's going to hit a target that size on purpose at that range, not with a pistol under field conditions. But there still not much functional difference. The problem is that we're up against the laws of physics; increasing the energy sent downrange increases the recoil and makes the weapon harder to control. You can juggle the factors around some, but the equation is the same. Small arms now are optimized for short range performance over those of 60 years ago, and they are slightly better at close range than the older weapons, but at a cost of completely giving up longer range performance. It's a trade off that works well under most conditions, but it's still a trade off, not an advance.

Possum · Post by **Possum** » Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:39 am

Hello All.
Some AFV's that are still around from WWII.

Hetzer, was in service with Czech republic, and swiss army untill 10? years ago.
Archer, still in use with some third world armies.
T34/85, likewize still in service with some third world armies.
JS-II, JS-III, JSU-122, JSU-152, still? in the equipment park of class C Russian Divisions.
Also, many trucks from WWII can still be found in use all over the world; Some like the Matador (UK) or the GMC 2-1/2 (USA) didn't go out of production untill the 70's.
As well, some WWII engineering equipment is still in use, if only with private companies in impoverished areas. ( eg Sherman dozer in use as a Dozer! in Paupa New Guninea ) I belive that the ribbon bridge used by army engineers today is still the same design as used in WWII.