1D10 versus 2D10

[Numdydar]

Can someone please explain why one should be used over the other?

[obermeister]

If you play all the add-in units like artillery and divisions, 2D10 is better. 1D10 otherwise is really easy on the attacker, who always brings some junk divisions to sacrifice as losses. I think there is something of a consensus among super-deluxe players around 2D10

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

2D10 is more "realistic". You get bonuses for things like massing your armor, it makes groundstrikes more powerful compared to 1D10, and the advent of an attacker result for half the units flipping means that offensives tend to peter out gradually. It's also considerably bloodier than 1D10. Terrain bonuses are more important, and raw power slightly less so.

Furthermore, it's far more deterministic. 1D10 gives you a 10% chance to crack Paris with 3 guys guarding it on a 3:2 attack, and a 10% chance for a 6:1 blitz to fall on its face with a attacker's loss and everyone flipping. 2D10, since two rolls will tend towards the mean, is much more deterministic, much more predictable.


This isn't a popular opinion, but I actually like the randomness of 1D10, I find it makes attackers in general have to be a bit more cautious about the risks they're taking. Most people prefer 2d10, IMO, because it's more predictable on the individual combat, and thus and more fitting of a grand strategy game.

I also don't like a few of the strategic consequences of 2d10. I've never once a "historical" barbarossa (M/J 41, Soviet army at the border) end in anything less than utter annihilation for the Soviets under 2D10; under 1D10, it's still bad, but not quite as horrific; and I mean the Soviets did win that war, eventually, and I think the WiF player ought to as well.


So I slightly prefer 1D10, but most people like 2D10. If there were some way to merge the tactical consideration given by 2D10 (to get you to mass your armor in the open, defend the cities, etc) with the higher stakes nature of 1D10, it'd be perfect, in my opinion.

[Orm]

I prefer the 1d10 table as well. And I think that the blitz optional rule improves the 1d10 table even more. The blitz option gives an advantage to mass armor in clear or desert terrain in fine weather.

[petracelli]

Hi

Have been playing wif for a long time and would highly recommend 2d10 particularly if you are playing with all the additional units. It provides the attacker with advantages which means the Germans have a chance or recreating their early war advances giving they can mass their armour and have a very good chance of flipping the defending units.

1d10 games are by comparison no where near as fluid and indeed if the German player is unlucky they struggle to get through Belguim.

Would recommend 2d10 to the extent that I would not play a game with 1d10.

Cheers

Phil

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Hi

Have been playing wif for a long time and would highly recommend 2d10 particularly if you are playing with all the additional units. It provides the attacker with advantages which means the Germans have a chance or recreating their early war advances giving they can mass their armour and have a very good chance of flipping the defending units.

1d10 games are by comparison no where near as fluid and indeed if the German player is unlucky they struggle to get through Belguim.

Would recommend 2d10 to the extent that I would not play a game with 1d10.

Cheers

Phil

Have you tried 1d10 with the blitz option?

I agree with you that with the 1d10 that the battle of France can become a slugging match. But at the same time I feel that the 2d10 table is to powerful in USSR 1941. Therefore I prefer playing with the blitz option and the 1d10 table.

[lomyrin]

I also play with 2D10 and will not go back to the older 1D10 which I did play with for many years until 2D10 came out.

[SLAAKMAN]

1D10 versus 2D10

1D10 is newb like Silly Warspite2&Chickenboy-Newblettes, 2D10 is pro. I choose 2D10. [:'(]

[michaelbaldur]

the most important different

is the the extreme results are rare on 2d10 .. the chance of rolling 2 or 20 is only 1%


with 1d10 you have a 10 % risk of rolling a 1 ....

[Numdydar]

That settles it for me as I will certainly be using the 2D10 as I would not want any chance of being impotnent [X(]

[michaelbaldur]

to late for you [:D]

[Numdydar]

How did you know?[X(]

[Neilster]

It's "too", people..."too" [;)]

Cheers, Neilster

[Neilster]

I haven't played with 2D10 but as it gives a distribution with more average results, I'd be inclined to prefer it. Weird results are possible but rare.

Actually, a 3D10 table would be good. It's gives a reasonable approximation of the Normal distribution without ridiculous complexity.

Cheers, Neilster

[composer99]

A 3D10 table with some additional decision-making (attacker vs. defender combat cards) is part of the 2008 annual (it's a component of Factories in Flames).

[paulderynck]

1D10 with Blitz Boni is not that different than 2D10. Without Blitz Boni 1D10 should only be used in what is known as "Classic" wherein you don't play with guns and divisions and so hexes only have two units stacked in them, maximum.

1D10 without Blitz Boni and with guns and divisions is like replaying WWI.

Personally I prefer 1D10 with Blitz Boni over 2D10 because as an attacker you can "guarantee" an attack at lower odds than with 2D10. Mind you they still have to be good odds like a 5 to 1 up3 Assault ("up3" meaning all 3 defenders are already flipped). The same attack in 2D10 has a 6% chance of failing.

[peskpesk]

I never play with 2D10 if I can avoid it. I did play with it for some time. But discovered that 1d10 with the blitz option is the way to go. It's much faster for players to calculate the modifiers.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

I never play with 2D10 if I can avoid it. I did play with it for some time. But discovered that 1d10 with the blitz option is the way to go. It's much faster for players to calculate the modifiers.

True, about the calculations. However, now MWIF is around and makes those calculations for you, 2D10 is going to it for me.

[composer99]

I like 2d10 (my Dungeons & Dragons heritage is showing here) because while there's a little bit more fiddling with number bonuses, it's still less cognitive work overall, at least IMO.

1d10 you have to know and manipulate die roll modifers and odds ratios (each permitted odds ratio has its own results column).

2d10 you just need to know die roll modifers (because a change in odds ratio just adds or subtracts modifiers).

[petracelli]

2d10 has less extreme luck than the 1d10 and trust me makes for a much better game a d there are ways of defending against a 41 barb for Russia, which is build all their own arm mech and at guns. All their ftrs to make it difficult for Germany to flip and get the Wallies to put real pressure on Italy.

Phil