Pricing Suggestion

[RockKahn]

If people would complain to the politicians about taxes as much as they complain to Matrix about prices, we'd all have a lot more money to spend on wargames. [8D]

The $80 download price is about what I was expecting. It's probably worth that, but people are deciding if they want to sink that much money into one game, and rightfully so, even if they consider it worth the money. After all, you can buy 2 other high quality Matrix games for that price.

I'm planning to buy it here in a little bit. I'm on a budget, too. I wanted Civil War 2, but Command more, so I decided I'd better wait to see what Command was going to cost me. I figured if it was $60 download, I'd buy both, but if it was $80 or more download, Civil War 2 is going to have to wait. Sorry CW2. I still want ya. Maybe someday.

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Interesting about CM...CM base $60, CM:CW: $40, CM:2.0 $10, CM:MG $40 = $150 for only a small portion of the ground war in Europe. (Throw in $100 for Italy and you are at $250)

I don't know where you get these ridiculously high prices. Did Matrix start selling CM titles all of a sudden?

From the Battlefront store:
CM base + CM:CW: $55
CM:MG + CM2.0: $40

For a grand total of $95, which is still cheaper than this title despite including 2 expansion packs. The full Italy bundle is $75, for a total which is $80 cheaper than your claim. Some companies actually know the meaning of the words "discount" and "bundled price".

+1 (and another +1)
please the wood, post correct data

[fuf]

ORIGINAL: Dale H

And they ain't going to lower the price. That would really alienate those that shelled out the big bucks already.

You're right, of course. They won't change the price and this whole discussion is academic.

It's just frustrating to see such a promising game get relegated to obscurity before it even has a chance, all as a result of irrational, outdated business practices.

[JDM]

The realty of the situation is that first day sales have exceeded all expectations. Experience tells us that the strategy games audience appreciated this sort of deep and immersive experience. WarSims are a brand new developer and your support is therefore all the more important and my goodness you have shown this in your droves. Just the support they need to go on bringing this type of game to our audience

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Brausepaul
Seems like this game needs a few AARs or good Let's play videos.

Please have a look here:

announcement.asp?id=26

tm.asp?m=3404912

tm.asp?m=3410675

tm.asp?m=3392507

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Hertston
What he said. I'll take the chance on this (and it is a chance - no demo, no track-record, no idea how good/bad/indifferent the AI is in an SP only game) as I am a genre-fan but the 'price' means a definite 'no' to ACW 2, World in Flames or Pandora, all of which I was likely to buy.

I have to respond to some of this. No demo, sure - but no idea of how good/bad? Just read the AARs, watch the videos and wait for customer and tester feedback. You'll get a very good idea of the quality of the game. As far as no track record, I would beg to differ. The guys involved in Command are among the brightest folks from the Harpoon community and their work there is very well known. For this genre, you would be hard pressed to assemble a better team.

As far as making a decision on which games to buy based on price, I certainly understand that. We all have our budget and our price points. For me, a game like Command comes along in each niche once in a long while and it's worth the price but your mileage may vary.

I also share the suspicion an MP enabled 'Admirals Edition' will come along at some point for which we'll be asked to fork out full whack again, with maybe only the usual pathetic Matrix 'existing owner' discount - remember Crown of Glory folks? [:(]

Still don't understand these comments. Admiral's Edition had nothing to do with MP and was a new game after WITP was very well supported. Admiral's Edition was very well received and continues to be supported. Crown of Glory received a lot of support after release and the Emperor's Edition only came out many years later after Forge of Freedom, including many engine and design improvements and new features, including a completely new tactical naval game.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: gexmex
Hands on videos, AARs, and dev diaries are great at garnering my interest and answering some questions. At the same time though, screenshots and vids of other people playing only get me so far, especially with an $80 price-point. Being able explore even just the tutorial of the game to get my feet wet and kick the tires a little bit would go a long way to improving my chances of purchasing. Maybe this is a bit over dramatic, but you would never purchase a car without a test drive. While it's a car vs a computer game I feel like the analogy still applies. This is a Cadillac of the game world. Let me take it for a spin before committing.

I understand demos really work well for some customers. Unfortunately they don't work well in general and they do require a significant amount of additional development effort to create. At this time, we'd rather focus that on the game itself.

Regards,

- Erik

[NefariousKoel]

I'll stop whining and pick it up. A small Matrix coupon helps take the sting out of the price.

I've been looking forward to this for years so I'd better jump off the fence. If it ends up getting superseded in an 'Ultimate Edition' re-release, I'll go Torches & Pitchforks at that time. Hopefully it's just regular 'ole expansions. [;)]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel
If things go WitP AE, GGWAW+, Harpoon UE, COG:EE and so on regarding re-releasing titles, what are we to expect? There are obviously fixes in the later versions that had been clamored for in the earlier ones, but since the originals were Discontinued we have to re-purchase the whole thing in order to get them. That is the core of my concern.

I'm kind of amazed actually that you see the titles you mention above as just re-releases with a few fixes. If that's what you really believe, I probably can't convince you otherwise. We have a record of supporting our exclusive releases very well. WITP received years of updates, including many new features, before WITP: AE development began. AE rewrote and redesigned the majority of the game, including changing the entire game scale and database and introducing an entirely new map. For GGWAW, we added multiplayer as a free update that took nine months to develop, even before we went back and created GGWAW AWD as a sequel. For Harpoon UE, we included every previous version and database of Harpoon we could find as a free addition, as well as combining both previous Harpoon releases into one for a significant discount after years of updates, as well as offering a discount upgrade for previous owners. For COG: EE, again after years of updates and an intervening game (Forge of Freedom) which updated the engine, we overhauled COG and introduced many new features and systems, it went through a development cycle just as long as the original COG before it was released, again with a discount for COG owners.

What I'm asking is for some assurance that we not drop eighty or more dollars on this title and see it discontinued for a newer version in 2-4 years which uses the same core game and a couple features added, going for another eighty-plus bucks. If this is really a "Premium" game from Matrix, I want to know that it will get long-term Premium patch support, even if they are few and far between. Not get stuck with an outdated and discontinued version shortly afterward. I want to buy the game. I do not want to feel fleeced & frustrated if it gets dumped a relatively short time into the future in favor of another iteration of same. I ask you to convince me.

We have no such intention. However, I consider the games you noted as well supported, for the reasons above, so we may just be on different pages on this. As I said above, I respect that the decision whether or not to purchase is personal and dependent on many points for each customer. Our goal is neither to fleece or frustrate you, but to support this as a flagship release.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: BROJD
What if I could go home tonight, download CMANO, play the tutorial and one or two select scenarios? Of course additional scenarios and the editor would be locked. If I could do that, my excitement over this game might be enough to convince me to spend $80 on it. Without that, Youtube videos and graphical AARs aren't enough to get me to risk my money and time on this.

Understood and I believe that it would work well for you. I wish I could give you that opportunity. If we feel a demo will help this release, we'll create one but I have to say again honestly that right now we have no plans for that based on the data we have to date on the effect of demos for complex wargames.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

And for the past 6 years Valve has proven this to be utterly and completely wrong. Volume of sales has proven to be so much more important than high unit price, and the entire PC gaming industry is undergoing a massive renaissance based on that simple principle. Except for certain parts of the wargaming community, who each year lag more and more behind.

Let's not revisit this again please. Please see my earlier link in this thread to the previous mega-thread on pricing where this was all discussed. There is no one size fits all pricing policy for all games in all genres anywhere.

Regards,

- Erik

[Aurelian]

The AARs convinced me..............................to buy it.

[Nemo84]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Let's not revisit this again please. Please see my earlier link in this thread to the previous mega-thread on pricing where this was all discussed. There is no one size fits all pricing policy for all games in all genres anywhere.

Regards,

- Erik

So far that one pricing policy size has fitted every single one of the genres that has tried it, including several who also initially identified themselves as "niche genres for which that pricing policy will never fit", as was also pointed out in that thread iirc. And I'll deduce from their continued existence that the concept of a weekly sale is working out rather well for you guys, despite your years-long reluctance to even try it.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

So far that one pricing policy size has fitted every single one of the genres that has tried it, including several who also initially identified themselves as "niche genres for which that pricing policy will never fit", as was also pointed out in that thread iirc. And I'll deduce from their continued existence that the concept of a weekly sale is working out rather well for you guys, despite your years-long reluctance to even try it.

With due respect, we've already had this discussion. Everything I could say has already been said in that previous thread and likewise for you I think. We are always watching the data and all inputs to determine the best price policy for each game and each developer, case by case, as it our responsibility as a publisher.

Regards,

- Erik

[thewood1]

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Interesting about CM...CM base $60, CM:CW: $40, CM:2.0 $10, CM:MG $40 = $150 for only a small portion of the ground war in Europe. (Throw in $100 for Italy and you are at $250)

I don't know where you get these ridiculously high prices. Did Matrix start selling CM titles all of a sudden?

From the Battlefront store:
CM base + CM:CW: $55
CM:MG + CM2.0: $40

For a grand total of $95, which is still cheaper than this title despite including 2 expansion packs. The full Italy bundle is $75, for a total which is $80 cheaper than your claim. Some companies actually know the meaning of the words "discount" and "bundled price".

You're cheating...that is the bundle price for CM modules. Only available if you wait 3-6 months to buy it. I was off $5 on each, but if buy them within 3 months of release it was still $130. I can pull my receipts if you like. Again, that is covering only a small part of the war. There are probably less than 10% of the number of units.

My perspective is still that this is a greater value than CM and we get it all at once. No waiting 2 years. If you are into Naval over WW2 squad-level combat, this is a great deal over CM.

[dutchman55555]

$90 for a downloaded game is...breathtaking.

Unfortunately, not in a good way.

I was definitely hyped for this one, but the wind has been completely taken out of my sails.

[dutchman55555]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

You're cheating...that is the bundle price for CM modules. Only available if you wait 3-6 months to buy it. I was off $5 on each, but if buy them within 3 months of release it was still $130. I can pull my receipts if you like. Again, that is covering only a small part of the war. There are probably less than 10% of the number of units.

The point being that Battlefront at least gives discounts fairly quickly.

Following the Matrix model, this one will go on sale in approximately Autumn 2022.

[helm123456789]

Too steep a price for me.

[Wiz33]

Got the boxed version. I expect to play this for 100s if not 1000s of hours over many years like the original Harpoon. I may even put together a new i7 Win 8.1 PC for this.

[thewood1]

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: thewood1

You're cheating...that is the bundle price for CM modules. Only available if you wait 3-6 months to buy it. I was off $5 on each, but if buy them within 3 months of release it was still $130. I can pull my receipts if you like. Again, that is covering only a small part of the war. There are probably less than 10% of the number of units.

The point being that Battlefront at least gives discounts fairly quickly.

Following the Matrix model, this one will go on sale in approximately Autumn 2022.

Math error...this game is $80...you stated CMBN all up is $95 discounted. 95<80...and its spread over a couple years, and lesser content, except MP.

Let's even get into CMSF...$55+$30+$30+30...$145 spread over 3 years.

I'll pay my $80 now and get it all at once.

btw, it took almost 10 years for BFC to discount CMBB and CMAK.

- edited for my own math error