not impressed by shadows

[Agathosdaimon]

great thanks for the replies, if the game does offer variety in that if one wants to play with either more economy or diplomacy or a more martial imperative in mind they can do this then htat interests me. I just wouldnt want the game to just be just going from region to region having to fight a more or less static enemy. I want an enemy that will be seeking to annihilate me too - if such a thing happens.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon
great thanks for the replies, if the game does offer variety in that if one wants to play with either more economy or diplomacy or a more martial imperative in mind they can do this then htat interests me. I just wouldnt want the game to just be just going from region to region having to fight a more or less static enemy. I want an enemy that will be seeking to annihilate me too - if such a thing happens.

Absolutely you will have that variety. Early on with Distant Worlds I played more economy/diplomacy focused and only later on become a megalomaniac. While you are getting the hang of the game the enemy will give you pause to reconsider your strategy at times. Just note there are a lot of settings, so make sure to set the game up in a way that you are most likely to enjoy and also keep in mind there is plenty of good reading in the depths of the forum.

Later on though ... no setting is challenging. On really crazy settings you'll either die in 5 seconds or win, nothing really "in between". In contrast, there are some other strategy games I keep coming back to, primary because on the highest difficulties there are plenty of games which end up "in between".

[Agathosdaimon]

thanks - i am not sure exactly what you mean in the last paragraph - that game has no challenging setting, or that playing without any setting is really challenging

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

thanks - i am not sure exactly what you mean in the last paragraph - that game has no challenging setting, or that playing without any setting is really challenging

I think the key is that at the hardest conditions (not just AI settings but things like a hostile homeworld), then you are at risk of an early game squashing. Once you survive (and if, unlike me, you are good enough) then later (rather than sooner) you'll hit the tipping point where the AI can't cope with you (this is not just DW, to me its a common issue in all open ended SP strategy games, such as the Paradox series).

Replayability in DW is high for three reasons. First its complex enough that a casual player will find it a challenge (and if you leave somethings automated then the human advantage over AI can be minimised). Second, different races and starting variants force you to use different strategies (so its not a case of learn the magic solution and just repeat). Finally, once you feel you will win with some ease, slip back into a role playing mindset, this is fun and makes use of the depth of the game.

[buncheesy]

I am still on my first play through (my natural tendency to micromanage is winning out [8|])Everything on default as recommended in the tutorial.

I believe I am now well into the midgame. Not much empty space on the map. I have had one major war, am trying to secure mutual defense pacts, the leading civilization is blockading me.....and the pirates left in the gaps have been hassling the frontiers pretty bad while I have been at war but are only now becoming a serious threat. I am now turning my attention onto them.

wot I think!
pirates are fun! Dont worry about them until they are seriously damaging you?
the game has oodles of strategy and depth and I can see the potential variety
I cant help but roleplay my civilization and characters and ascribe traits and character to my rivals

last word:
When setting up a game, among the enormous number of settings available to craft your experience, you can turn pirates, down. up, off, or to not respawn.

being a newbie to the game I don't have an issue with pirates. I like them!

[Agathosdaimon]

I dont mind pirates either sorry i was just not sure if the game was only about fending off pirates battlewise

[Icemania]

Yep, Shadows Pirates are great fun. Enjoy Agathosdaimon!

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: loki100
I think the key is that at the hardest conditions (not just AI settings but things like a hostile homeworld), then you are at risk of an early game squashing. Once you survive (and if, unlike me, you are good enough) then later (rather than sooner) you'll hit the tipping point where the AI can't cope with you (this is not just DW, to me its a common issue in all open ended SP strategy games, such as the Paradox series).

Agree.

I would just say there are some rare Strategy games when even after 100's of hour of play the outcome is not as simple as "die in 5 seconds or win" on the higher difficulties.

As an example every now and again I'll come back to play Civilisation on Immortal Difficulty. On Deity Difficulty I normally just get smashed ... no fun. On Emperor Difficulty I always win ... no fun. On Immortal ... well I have no idea what the outcome will be ... but improved strategy definitely improves win rates ... hence fun.

I wish Distant Worlds was also one of those rare exceptions. It certainly should be part of the vision for the future of Distant Worlds.

[Agathosdaimon]

heya, i am still a little confused by whats being said - is DW a game where there is no in between? i would like a game that is an ongoing interest challenge that can go in new places - though i doubt i would ever even get good enough at DW or play it for long enough periods to clear it - most strat games challenge me - Wargame ALB trounces me, even the Tiller Games i find a good challenge -

[Icemania]

My comments above only apply after many hours of play. You'll have many hours of fun playing Distant Worlds in the meantime.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

heya, i am still a little confused by whats being said - is DW a game where there is no in between? i would like a game that is an ongoing interest challenge that can go in new places - though i doubt i would ever even get good enough at DW or play it for long enough periods to clear it - most strat games challenge me - Wargame ALB trounces me, even the Tiller Games i find a good challenge -

no its a great fun game, and its easy to find a balance of settings that will give you a challenge. But it is a game, with rules and with an AI - ie at some point of personal competence (to which I make no claim) you'll find you have exhausted the potential.

I'm on my 3rd full game, and god knows how many aborted starts, and having a great time with it

[solops]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

solops, the concern you have raised is eminently preventable. Very early game use select protection agreements, cancelled when they leave. Get your Pirate Extermination Fleets going early, first wave destroying each base found by your Exploration Fleet, second wave using findings from Explorers with Scanners. Once you have cleared a ring around your territory it won't be long before pirate attacks are rarely strong enough to break through 3-4 ship defensive fleets stationed at each planet. Then a wider ring etc. I'll rarely have more than a handful of Pirate bases to clear all game. Once you get the hang of this the biggest problem is clearing the map of Pirates too quickly and getting bored with the quiet galaxy left behind!

Unless I am missing something, you are missing the point. Dealing with pirate space bases and fleets is not the issue. Dealing with the secret bases they start on your empire's planets is the issue. Shooting up fleets and space bases is pure fun and, after a very short while they are no real threat. Their fleets are simple to fend off and destroy. There is not even an empire-wide report that clearly shows on which planets the pirates have planetary bases. Going through all your planets every turn to micromanage troop levels in order to fight secret pirate planet-based bases on planets you own is boring and tedious. From what I have seen, they can start secret bases on one's planets without a successful raid. This makes playing big empire games mind numbing.

[Darkspire]

Unless I am missing something, you are missing the point. Dealing with pirate space bases and fleets is not the issue. Dealing with the secret bases they start on your empire's planets is the issue. Shooting up fleets and space bases is pure fun and, after a very short while they are no real threat. Their fleets are simple to fend off and destroy. Going through all your planets every turn to micromanage troop levels in order to fight secret pirate planet-based bases on planets you own is boring and tedious. From what I have seen, they can start secret bases on one's planets without a successful raid. This makes playing big empire games mind numbing.

Press F2 to bring up the colony screen and scroll through your colonies, click the Facilities tab and attack from there. Adjust the troop levels to suit yourself from the policy screen and ensure that is on auto, I usually have it set to a minimum of 5 for troops at a colony, that ensures you have the troops to attack the bases.
As for them being able to build even without raiding that is down to a lack of defense at the colony, if they can get anywhere near the colony then the control goes up, if they are not challenged then they will build a base. In my present game I have 132 colonies and pirates are all around the influence circles of my empire, if they do make the mistake of building a base in my influence my long range radar picks them up, you can see from the color of the constructor even before the pirate logo appears whether it is a pirate, I send an attack fleet and wipe them out as soon as I spot them, the Galaxy screen is useful for this as you just leave the pirate base filter on to check there positions, I very very rarely get a pirate base at one of my colonies and when I do that is when they are fresh from invasion, leave the troops there, smeg the base, and then assign a small four ship destroyer defense fleet to the colony and the pirates are history as they can not get the influence any longer to build a base.

Darkspire

[solops]

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

Press F2 to bring up the colony screen and scroll through your colonies, click the Facilities tab and attack from there.

Exactly. You have to go through every planet, one at a time, just to find out if you have a problem. We need better management tools and summary screens that shows all of the planets and the bases/installations on them.

[dostillevi]

If you pull up the colony management screen, there is an icon on the line of any planet with a pirate base. Every planet with a facility gets an icon for that facility, and pirate bases are no different. It's fairly easy to tell which planets have them, then its just a matter of getting troops there and removing them.

[Darkspire]

ORIGINAL: solops

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

Press F2 to bring up the colony screen and scroll through your colonies, click the Facilities tab and attack from there.

Exactly. You have to go through every planet, one at a time, just to find out if you have a problem. We need better management tools and summary screens that shows all of the planets and the bases/installations on them.

Not really, you do not have to do anything but scroll the list of colonies as previuosly mentioned, the facilities for a colony are shown in the middle of the colony data breakdown, 9 times out of 10 the colony that does have one on has nothing else there so it sticks out like a sore thumb, brown and square looking, can't miss it as no other facility looks like it and normally I find them towards the bottom of the list, takes a few seconds to find any and a few more if found to attack them. As I said, increase the defense of the colony (planetside and in orbit) and they do not appear again.

Darkspire

[CyclopsSlayer]

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

ORIGINAL: solops

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

Press F2 to bring up the colony screen and scroll through your colonies, click the Facilities tab and attack from there.

Exactly. You have to go through every planet, one at a time, just to find out if you have a problem. We need better management tools and summary screens that shows all of the planets and the bases/installations on them.

Not really, you do not have to do anything but scroll the list of colonies as previuosly mentioned, the facilities for a colony are shown in the middle of the colony data breakdown, 9 times out of 10 the colony that does have one on has nothing else there so it sticks out like a sore thumb, brown and square looking, can't miss it as no other facility looks like it and normally I find them towards the bottom of the list, takes a few seconds to find any and a few more if found to attack them. As I said, increase the defense of the colony (planetside and in orbit) and they do not appear again.

Darkspire

While I agree it isn't that hard to find the base, I just find it tedious to locate and attack them. Especially as the Pirates seem to have no limits in creating them. I clear 1 base, and a new one starts construction nearly instantly. And as to having no defenses, SO NOT TRUE, I have had a armed Port over head, troops on the ground, with an assigned fleet, and still get raided and have bases constructed. Even when they get fought off they often carry off loot somehow.
That plus not being able to attack a base while under Pirate raid... makes me rage at times.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: solops
Unless I am missing something, you are missing the point. Dealing with pirate space bases and fleets is not the issue. Dealing with the secret bases they start on your empire's planets is the issue. Shooting up fleets and space bases is pure fun and, after a very short while they are no real threat. Their fleets are simple to fend off and destroy. There is not even an empire-wide report that clearly shows on which planets the pirates have planetary bases. Going through all your planets every turn to micromanage troop levels in order to fight secret pirate planet-based bases on planets you own is boring and tedious. From what I have seen, they can start secret bases on one's planets without a successful raid. This makes playing big empire games mind numbing.

To clarify, I'll rarely have more than a handful of Pirate land bases to clear all game. Every game.

Early game obviously you are at the most vulnerable. Again, protection agreements, cancel when they leave. At that stage we are talking a handful of colonies so checking for Pirate land bases with the method Darkspire suggested is trivial.

From mid-game, Pirate ships will almost always be destroyed before they reach my colonies. There is the rare exception but only when I've made a mistake e.g. expand without proper defences or poorly positioned defensive ships. They cannot build land bases because they do not get the chance to land troops. The only other land bases to destroy come from conquering others.

In short, if you are seeing many Pirate land bases, consider how to improve your Strategy.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer
While I agree it isn't that hard to find the base, I just find it tedious to locate and attack them. Especially as the Pirates seem to have no limits in creating them. I clear 1 base, and a new one starts construction nearly instantly. And as to having no defenses, SO NOT TRUE, I have had a armed Port over head, troops on the ground, with an assigned fleet, and still get raided and have bases constructed. Even when they get fought off they often carry off loot somehow.
That plus not being able to attack a base while under Pirate raid... makes me rage at times.

CyclopsSlayer, mid-game, I tend to arm those Ports with 10-20 Torpedoes and have 2-4 ships stationed that typically have 10 Torpedoes each, along with the associated Weapons Research focus. In parallel you should also be building Pirate Extermination fleets, I typically build up to 7, as soon I can fund it. I build custom ships with extra fuel, research long range scanners reasonably early, so that those Fleets can almost always be attacking a target. Keep those ships well positioned, ensure they respond as soon as threats appear, and you should be good. My AAR might help as well (although I do it much faster now).

[CyclopsSlayer]

My standard ports;

SSP (scattered far and wide) Torp x15, Fighter Bays x10, HyperDeny, no labs
MSP (major colonies or strategic ones) Torps x30, Fighter Bays x20, HyperDeny, Labs 5 each
LSP (Homeworld at most 1 more) Torp x45, Fighter Bay x30, HyperDeny, Labs 20 each

DFB (Homeworld and front line worlds only) Torp x30, Fighter Bay x40, Hyperdeny, no labs

Lately I have started adding a few Tractor Beams, effective IF the ships get in range, so it might be great for Pirate defenses as they close to drop pods.