naval bombardment.

[erstad]

Unlikly he set bombardment range to 18 (which is the only range where the DDs could fire and the DP guns couldnt) since he has no idea what units are in the hex.

Note there is a one click option to set the range to the minimum range of the bombarding guns. Many folks might routinely click that. Has nothing to do with knowing what units are present.

Doesn't prove your opponent *did* set the range. But absent other data one can't assume he *didn't* set the range.

[Miller]

Range was set to zero. The only ships those guns could have damaged anyway were the DDs/DMS....

[witpqs]

If range is set to zero, it just uses the default range, as it was before there was a range setting available, right?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

If range is set to zero, it just uses the default range, as it was before there was a range setting available, right?

That's my understanding.

[MDDgames]

ORIGINAL: Miller

Range was set to zero. The only ships those guns could have damaged anyway were the DDs/DMS....

Right. But he didnt.

And again, the guns didnt fire AT ALL, as did none of the other guns in the hex. It is broken.

And truth be told, that isnt true either. Ive had the Yamato catch fire and burn down from 40mm hits from PT boats.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
I predict you will have a brief and unhappy AE experience.

+1

Even if the guns would have fired back it wouldn´t have changed anything one bit. A couple of peashooters against 20 Cruisers...

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: MDDgames

ORIGINAL: Miller

Range was set to zero. The only ships those guns could have damaged anyway were the DDs/DMS....

Right. But he didnt.

And again, the guns didnt fire AT ALL, as did none of the other guns in the hex. It is broken.

And truth be told, that isnt true either. Ive had the Yamato catch fire and burn down from 40mm hits from PT boats.

Well it seems the vast consensus on here thinks that it's not a bug. So, as I have said to you previously, its either time to accept it and play on or call it quits so I can start looking for another opponent. PM me your answer.

[MDDgames]

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: MDDgames

ORIGINAL: Miller

Range was set to zero. The only ships those guns could have damaged anyway were the DDs/DMS....

Right. But he didnt.

And again, the guns didnt fire AT ALL, as did none of the other guns in the hex. It is broken.

And truth be told, that isnt true either. Ive had the Yamato catch fire and burn down from 40mm hits from PT boats.

Well it seems the vast consensus on here thinks that it's not a bug. So, as I have said to you previously, its either time to accept it and play on or call it quits so I can start looking for another opponent. PM me your answer.

lol, no. Michael is the one and only opinion here that matters. And he hasnt responded.

And frankly, it IS a bug. No one here is disputing that. They offer excuses on why they may not have fired, while their excuses would be true under the circumstances they site, the fact is the circumstances dont apply. The 4" Mk 9 guns on your DMSs have a max range of 16, and the 120mm DP has a range of 17. The simple fact is my guns out range you, even if you HAD fired at max range (which you didnt), and my guns didnt shoot.

It IS a bug. Simple as that. But again, Michael is the one and only authority on that, and he hasnt responded as yet. And I find it laughable that I seem to be the only person here that is willing to acknowledge that fact, that being that his is the ONLY opinion that matters.

And those that dont offer a possible explanation think that attacking the poster is the answer to the problem. Such petty people.[8|]

[Bullwinkle58]

You clearly don't know who Don Bowen is.

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: MDDgames

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: MDDgames



Right. But he didnt.

And again, the guns didnt fire AT ALL, as did none of the other guns in the hex. It is broken.

And truth be told, that isnt true either. Ive had the Yamato catch fire and burn down from 40mm hits from PT boats.

Well it seems the vast consensus on here thinks that it's not a bug. So, as I have said to you previously, its either time to accept it and play on or call it quits so I can start looking for another opponent. PM me your answer.

lol, no. Michael is the one and only opinion here that matters. And he hasnt responded.

And frankly, it IS a bug. No one here is disputing that. They offer excuses on why they may not have fired, while their excuses would be true under the circumstances they site, the fact is the circumstances dont apply. The 4" Mk 9 guns on your DMSs have a max range of 16, and the 120mm DP has a range of 17. The simple fact is my guns out range you, even if you HAD fired at max range (which you didnt), and my guns didnt shoot.

It IS a bug. Simple as that. But again, Michael is the one and only authority on that, and he hasnt responded as yet. And I find it laughable that I seem to be the only person here that is willing to acknowledge that fact, that being that his is the ONLY opinion that matters.

And those that dont offer a possible explanation think that attacking the poster is the answer to the problem. Such petty people.[8|]

Ok. Lets assume, for arguments sake, it is a bug. What would you have expected the outcome to be if they had fired? In an email to me you stated that if your guns had fired I would have inflicted no damage at all to the airfield. Seriously? 160-ish 8" and 6" guns vs 2 x 5" and a handful of 3". Come on.

The net result is you have lost, I estimate, 50 fighters on the ground and the field is closed for a turn or two. You have no strike planes based there so its not as if the result stopped you launching a counter strike the next day either. I have offered to suspend any further bombardments for the time being. Do you really want to give up on this game after the amount of time we had dedicated to it over this issue? Seriously?

[Bullwinkle58]

I don't know the background of the game. But two thoughts:

1) Range does not equal effective fire-control for hitting moving ships at that range.

2) A bug is something that is broken. A design decision one does not like is not a bug.

[JocMeister]

Do take note of the fact that michael has been logged on and not responded here. Thats probably a good indication that he won´t touch this. Couple that with Don Bowens comment and I don´t think you will get your way with this.

As Miller points out even if your CD guns fired back it wouldn´t have changed one bit. Your are talking 20 Cruisers against a couple of peashooters. Its not the Truk fortress...

Here is the effect on some bigger guns than what you have shooting back a much, much smaller force. If you think you CD guns would have changed anything you have the wrong expectations.

Naval Gun Fire at Bataan - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

54 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 1
CA Minneapolis
CA Chicago, Shell hits 1
CA Chester, Shell hits 1
CL Miami
CL Mobile
CL Birmingham
CL Montpelier
DD Yarnall
DD Wickes
DD Waller
DD Walker
DD Twining
DD Fletcher
DD Lyman K. Swenson
DD Brush

[Symon]

Briefly, michaelm won't respond to this because it is not a bug. Don Bowen wrote the code for the Naval Team, including this part. We all still chat.

CD return fire algorithm hasn't changed much since day 1. We also play the game. It has worked and still works as designed for us and everybody else.

Your issue is not a bug and the game isn't broken. Perhaps an apology to Miller and a bit less overheated rhetoric, yeah?

ps, look at the credits at the end of the manual. You will find that many of the developers are still active and, depending on the algorithms being discussed, have opinions that are quite definitive, thank you very much.

pps, your original premise is wrong. Naval forces can hit other targets without regard to whether shore guns are defeated, or even if they are engaged, first. Shore guns respond on the basis of a die roll. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. From your panel, I can see two reasons why they may not have fired.

Acting the a$$hole as you are, I don’t think I want to help you. Apologize to Miller, publicly, and I might see my way clear to answering your question.

JWE

[MDDgames]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I don't know the background of the game. But two thoughts:

1) Range does not equal effective fire-control for hitting moving ships at that range.

2) A bug is something that is broken. A design decision one does not like is not a bug.

So, just so I understand this. The design decision is that naval DP guns do NOT shoot at bombarding naval vessels, or any other guns in the hex for that matter, and so it is working as designed. Note, your item number 1 is moot, because they didnt fire. The complaint isnt that they didnt hit, it is that they didnt even fire. And the ships never fired at them either.

Just a little more background. My night Emily patrol planes spotted his TF before they left their base. My night Bettys attacked twice before he even bombarded as well, so the question of him "sneaking up" on the base is also moot. They were spotted well in advance.

So the only questions are, do Jap DP guns fire at bombarding ships? And you, and Don, and JWE say "no", they are not supposed to fire back at bombarding ships. And do bombarding ships have to shoot at defending coastal guns before anything else in the hex, and you, Don, and JWE also say "no" to that question as well.

Do I understand you correctly? The design of the game is that guns that were designed to shoot at ships and airplanes only fire at airplanes. Does this work the same for allied DP guns?

Oh, and since my Hong Kong CDU failed to fire at ships in the straights off Java, Im assuming that means IJA coastal guns also wouldnt fire at bombarding ships as well (since they didnt months ago).

If this isnt a bug, then it certainly is a design flaw, and Michael should correct this. 99% sure this isnt the way it worked in stock WitP, so it would have been a change made for AE.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: MDDgames

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I don't know the background of the game. But two thoughts:

1) Range does not equal effective fire-control for hitting moving ships at that range.

2) A bug is something that is broken. A design decision one does not like is not a bug.

So, just so I understand this. The design decision is that naval DP guns do NOT shoot at bombarding naval vessels, or any other guns in the hex for that matter, and so it is working as designed.

Just a little more background. My night Emily patrol planes spotted his TF before they left their base. My night Bettys attacked twice before he even bombarded as well, so the question of him "sneaking up" on the base is also moot. They were spotted well in advance.

So the only questions are, do Jap DP guns fire at bombarding ships? And you, and Don, and JWE say "no", they are not supposed to fire back at bombarding ships. And do bombarding ships have to shoot at defending coastal guns before anything else in the hex, and you, Don, and JWE also say "no" to that question as well.

Do I understand you correctly? The design of the game is that guns that were designed to shoot at ships and airplanes only fire at airplanes. Does this work the same for allied DP guns?

Oh, and since my Hong Kong CDU failed to fire at ships in the straights off Java, Im assuming that means IJA coastal guns also wouldnt fire at bombarding ships as well (since they didnt months ago).

If this isnt a bug, then it certainly is a design flaw, and Michael should correct this.

No, you do not understand and you are not even making an effort to understand. What you seem to want is something as simple as checkers. Wrong game. Good luck.

[LoBaron]

Ailinglaplap

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 351 damaged
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 9 destroyed on ground
A6M2 Zero: 310 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 16 destroyed on ground
E13A1 Jake: 70 damaged
E13A1 Jake: 5 destroyed on ground

[X(]

[PaxMondo]

removed after consideration. [;)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: MDDgames

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I don't know the background of the game. But two thoughts:

1) Range does not equal effective fire-control for hitting moving ships at that range.

2) A bug is something that is broken. A design decision one does not like is not a bug.

So, just so I understand this. The design decision is that naval DP guns do NOT shoot at bombarding naval vessels, or any other guns in the hex for that matter, and so it is working as designed. Note, your item number 1 is moot, because they didnt fire. The complaint isnt that they didnt hit, it is that they didnt even fire. And the ships never fired at them either.

A developer with knowledge of the code--no, two of them--have told you it's working as designed. There is a die roll. Random chance. You didn't get the roll. If you had, as has been pointed out (look at the penetration number for your guns in the DB), next to nothing would have happened.

I predict this will be the last post in this thread, unless you want to make a fool of yourself some more.

[Miller]

Well I hope this information has resolved the issue and I don't want this to turn into a witch hunt of my opponent, he believed he was in the right (he may still do) and is entitled to his opinion. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

I am not after any apology, I would just like our game to continue and have informed MDDgames of this. The decision is his now.

[erstad]

So, just so I understand this. The design decision is that naval DP guns do NOT shoot at bombarding naval vessels, or any other guns in the hex for that matter, and so it is working as designed.

Not accurate. Naval DP guns WILL shoot at bombarding naval vessels. That doesn't mean they will always shoot. No-one authoritative has said they "do NOT shoot" (let alone that it was a design decision for them not to shoot). Here's a screenshot showing a DP gun shooting.