48 Arm Inf at Manhay

[Phoenix100]

Does anybody know who designed the Manhay Crossroads scenario? I've played it many, many times, from both sides, and always assumed that the OBs were pretty historical. But when I went to stay in Manhay recently, and looked over the battlefield and museums, and took a tour, I could find no mention of the 48th Arm Infantry Battalion, which has a pretty significant role in the game scenario. For instance, C co. is placed in a blocking position on the road into Manhay, from Baraque de Fraiture.

Does anybody know who designed the scenario? I'd like to know what the source was for the 48th AI involvement.

[danlongman]

I have not been to Manhay for some years and can't remember the museums very well. Do they make mention of the larger formations only?
I found myself confused sometimes when the US Army Corps were mentioned on monuments etc. because I do not remember the Corps numbers as
well as I remember the Division and Regimental numbers. Some of those AI Battalions were Corps assets and/or allocated to different divisions temporarily. 48th belonged to 7th Armored. That is all I can think of.

[Phoenix100]

7th Armoured gets mentioned all over, of course, yes. That may be it. There are so many little memorials it's incredible, some to small units (there's a mention of those members of the 106th, for example, who wind up fleeing from the chaos further north only to be corralled into a courageous stand at Baraque de Fraiture, with other units pulled together by Parker), but I didn't see a mention of 48th AI anywhere. I'm not suggesting they weren't involved, I'd just like to read whatever the source is that caused the designer to put them in there, blocking the road down, for example. The notes speak of 2SS 'brushing aside' 2 American roadblocks (one of which, in the game, is 48th AI). And then after that there is the famous incident with Barkman (of Normandy fame)blindly driving his tank, accidentally, into the retreating 7th armoured supply train which was stuck in Manhay.

There are plans for more memorials, even, I was told, as the 70th anniversary comes up. It's amazing how they approach it locally. Grandmenil, for example, was just about flattened by US arty (and apparently that did little good in terms of killing Axis troops), yet if a vet shows up the locals drag him into their homes (fifteen of thirty were rebuilt)and insist he drink until drunk (I was told all this by a local) in gratitude.

UPDATE: I found a ref to 48th AI doing the blocking job in Pallud's Then and Now book. I wonder where he got it from.

[wodin]

Probably Unit history...

[danlongman]

There is this information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Armore ... _States%29 .
It seems to me the 7th AD had 3 AI Battalions: 23rd, 38th and 48th. The division had significant losses at St Vith
and was mixed with troops from 106th ID and 28th ID and other corps troops of various provenance.

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: phoenix

7th Armoured gets mentioned all over, of course, yes. That may be it. There are so many little memorials it's incredible, some to small units (there's a mention of those members of the 106th, for example, who wind up fleeing from the chaos further north only to be corralled into a courageous stand at Baraque de Fraiture, with other units pulled together by Parker), but I didn't see a mention of 48th AI anywhere. I'm not suggesting they weren't involved, I'd just like to read whatever the source is that caused the designer to put them in there, blocking the road down, for example. The notes speak of 2SS 'brushing aside' 2 American roadblocks (one of which, in the game, is 48th AI). And then after that there is the famous incident with Barkman (of Normandy fame)blindly driving his tank, accidentally, into the retreating 7th armoured supply train which was stuck in Manhay.

There are plans for more memorials, even, I was told, as the 70th anniversary comes up. It's amazing how they approach it locally. Grandmenil, for example, was just about flattened by US arty (and apparently that did little good in terms of killing Axis troops), yet if a vet shows up the locals drag him into their homes (fifteen of thirty were rebuilt)and insist he drink until drunk (I was told all this by a local) in gratitude.

UPDATE: I found a ref to 48th AI doing the blocking job in Pallud's Then and Now book. I wonder where he got it from.

If it's an academically sound historical account, it will tell you the reference materials in footnotes and the bibliography.

If the book doesn't contain those, doesn't mean it's inaccurate, but it does mean that the author's peers in the historical community will wonder how disciplined the author was in performing the research.

Here's information from the official US military web site on the 7th AD. It indicates the 48th Armored Infantry was assigned to it during the time the Manhay scenario after it returned from being a detachment to the 102d Infantry Division between Dec 5 and 9:


http://www.history.army.mil/documents/E ... AD-ETO.htm

And, here's an on line unit history:

http://www.7tharmddiv.org/

And, here's a link to the 7th Armored Division's document repository:

http://www.7tharmddiv.org/docrep/index.htm#4412

[simovitch]

This is one of Pieter's (tukker) scenarios. He is usually quite thorough in his research.

[tukker]

Yes, it's mine. It has been a long time since I've designed it, I don't remember what my sources for the involvement of 48 Arm Inf Bn were. I'll look it up and will get back to you.

Pieter

[tukker]

OK, I've looked it up.

I used Cole who mentions that CCA/7 Armored were in the Manhay area. They were about to retreat when the 2 SS Pz struck (2100 hrs, dec 24- the start of the scenario).

That CCA/7 were in the area is confirmed in Reynolds''Sons of the Reich', who states that CCA lost 22 of its 32 tanks and that 40th Tank Bn and 48 Armored Inf Bn lost six killed and 19 wounded. It seems the retreat of CCA/7 turned into a rout.

Both the AAR of CCA/7 and of 48 AIBn briefly describe the events of Christmas Eve 1944 here- (This is the same link Jim Caravallah already posted above).

So, even if the 48 AIBn isn't mentioned now at Manhay, they defenitely were there then [;)]

Pieter

[Phoenix100]

Cheers Tukker. And thanks Jim. It's a great scenario, Tukker. Played it too many times, from both sides. Very challenging as Axis. Thanks!

It says this in the unit history:

14. 24 December 1944.
Location: Manhay, Belgium
Map Reference: Vielsalm, 1/50,000, sheet 93. Grid coordinates 584-903.
Battalion left Harze at 0845 and traveled South through Werbomont, Champ de Haire, Chene at Pieire and arrived at Mont Behin Station at 1000. CP was established there. Troops went forward and were deployed South of Manhay. As darkness drew near the Battalion Commander with the Company Commanders made a reconnaissance of a new area to the Northwest of Manhay. Plans to withdraw the troops from the lines and to deploy them in the new area were made with the first company withdrawing at 2200. Soon after the first troops had begun to withdraw, the enemy launched an attack. "A" Company withdrew intact. Companies "B" and "C" became disorganized through the fierce attack and parts of the troops came back to take up a new defensive position South of Mont Bihen Station. New CP was established at Mont Bihen Station.