DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (Game Over - Open Thread)

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Here are our blizzard losses: On a side note its worth mentioning that I managed to isolate 6 Russian divisions in February. The pocket almost held but the main point is that I taught my enemy to respect me even during the hardest turns for the Germans.

[A game]

Nicely done on the blizzard defense DV! Looks like you have a good start to 42'.

Glad to see your still plugging away with the germans!

[smokindave34]

Well done DV - it looks like between you and MT we have seen that the axis can stand their ground during the blizzard. Additionally the new blizzard rules will greatly help the axis cause.

You'll certainly miss those panzer divisions during the summer but your a lot further east than you would have been if you done the standard axis blizzard retreat (like I did against M60!).

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Thanks guys. I'm now a firm believer that a blizzard defense is possible. My recommendation is to prepare a defensive range between 8-12 hexes behind your furthest advance. You simply have to give ground during december but prepare to throw everything to the line come january and you should be able to hold your ground fairly well. You will get pushed back in places but if you had a decent 41 O the Reds can only concentrate in a few spaces. Use terrain and pre built forts to create reserves to switch to areas of Soviet concentration. Oh and hold the Gross Deutschland Regiment back b/c its worthless in blizzard and will eventually be your best division if used properly.

I also kept the full Luftwaffe on the line and it helped me win many battles I'm sure. I only had 2 divisions and the GD regiment which didn't see combat.

[Flaviusx]

A very impressive winter defense. It makes me worry now if perhaps the new blizzard optional rules are not necessary after all. But we shall see. I still think the old blizzard is too strong, myself, but maybe not so much as I feared.

It would seem that even under the old set of rules it is possible to make a stand if you don't just send a dozen or more divisions to Germany on winter holiday. Both you and Micheal T have made this work now, and you did it under far less favorable circumstances than Micheal.

Perhaps this will encourage more Axis players to abandon this perverse idea of removing an entire army from the front which necessarily results in a crack up. This idea took hold early on, became conventional wisdom, and has wrecked a lot of games since.

[Michael T]

I have similar concerns about the new blizzard rule and suspect that come January an Axis player in a strong position may well be able to resume the offensive in some area's if the Reds got hammered in the summer.

[Flaviusx]

Well, I'm okay with some limited ability to counterattack from January on, this is what happened in real life. The Germans didn't merely passively receive the Soviet offensive, there was hard fighting involved as both sides tried to cut each other's communications in the AGC area in particular.

So the trick is to make this possible without it becoming an outright counteroffensive. It ought to be a brawl that results in mutual exhaustion and highly irregular salients. I like the new rules because I think in principle they could result in such salients, terrain will matter much more now.

It just needs playtesting now. The values can be adjusted accordingly if they are too strong.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

A very impressive winter defense. It makes me worry now if perhaps the new blizzard optional rules are not necessary after all. But we shall see. I still think the old blizzard is too strong, myself, but maybe not so much as I feared.

It would seem that even under the old set of rules it is possible to make a stand if you don't just send a dozen or more divisions to Germany on winter holiday. Both you and Micheal T have made this work now, and you did it under far less favorable circumstances than Micheal.

Perhaps this will encourage more Axis players to abandon this perverse idea of removing an entire army from the front which necessarily results in a crack up. This idea took hold early on, became conventional wisdom, and has wrecked a lot of games since.

Obviously I agree about the blizzard part..the only remaining issue is to see how effective I can be come the summer offensive. Your forces will take a beating and they will never quite recover. Here is my current panzer arm.

Overall I like the new blizzard reduction, but maybe the Soviets need to be thrown a bone. If nothing else a HR or two to limit the Southern opening.

[gingerbread]

I think that Saper222 belongs in the group of players that have conducted a workable Axis Blizzard defence, though IMO he then made a mistake in not keeping in contact with the Soviets during March-May in order to inflict attrition losses.

This gave his opponent (Harrybanana) the opportunity to increase the Soviet forces from 6M in T37 to 7.5M in T51.

Have you kept track of how much IND & ARM you have destroyed?

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 48 - THE FINNS[/center]

I think I mentioned before that I kept the bulk of the Finns out of Blizzard combat to maintain their higher morale. Instead I've been building a sophisticated defense in depth to prepare for the late game. Not sure if this is the wisest strategy but we'll see if it pays off. Only 1 Finnish Corps is manning an active line for AGN.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 48 - AGN [/center]

The Northern Front goes static on hardy defensive positions. I few reserve regiments are constructing rear guard lines right behind the front.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 48 - AGC NORTHERN FRONT[/center]

Here is where the action is. Despite the fact that most of my infantry are 25% understrength I was strong enough to rob other fronts and concentrate on the path to Vyazma. SillyFlower stacked a lot of guards on the front door so it made an inviting target. We planned out a May offensive and unleashed hell on the first odd day/clear turn. Scored about 14 wins/3 holds to encircle 6 divisions of infantry including a Guards. Although the encirclement held Sillyflower returned the favor and brutally thrashed my weaker fronts and encircling the Spanish Division currently under 2nd army. A rough trade off but the fortified wall in front of Moscow is smashed.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 48 - AGS[/center]

The more gratifying aspect of our early summer offensive. In the South I pulled the same trick. I left about 1/2 the front threadbare to mass my strength against the Kharkov Salient. Sean had left too many units exposed across clear terrain near Kharkov. I originally planned on using the 2nd Pz Group but it wasn't needed. Instead of using the depleted group (2nd Pz is the weakest of the 4) to launch non strategic attacks I continued to let them sit on refit behind the lines.

10 Divisions isolated, I think 1 or 2 is guards..not sure. Kharkov is also isolated. The pocket will be annihilated next turn.

[loki100]

some neat small scale counterattacks ... and both set you up to do more?

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: loki100

some neat small scale counterattacks ... and both set you up to do more?

Not so much in the south. He's firmly dug in behind the river just east of Kharkov. More than likely the next clear turn I will pull 1st Pz back to refit and rail to different location. Let my infantry man the west bank of said river. In the North he has a hole in his front with no forts. Going to keep pushing that hole to force him back and hopefully bag more units.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

I deleted the save..I'll post pictures on the next one.

Last turn I wiped out 18 divisions which included 2 guards and 1 mtn. By the end of the turn we wiped out nearly 200k men. A great pre-liminary campaign to kick off the Summer! As a follow up I committed 2nd Panzer to punish his breakthrough in the South. Sean had ripped open a weak part of the front and encircled a division from 17th army..However he couldn't (or he was reckless) recall his tank Corps from the breakthrough. I made him pay for it! In the South where 1st and 2nd Pz groups combined to encircle 4 Tank Corps and 1 Rifle division. The pocket is extremely solid so I imagine they are as good as toast!

In the North the terrain and previously built forts really slow me down. We smashed a bunch of SF's units and encircled 1 Rifle division. Even with these successes I'm still very intimidated by the Summer campaign. I disbanded all 3 Sec Army HQ's to bring up some manpower. Otherwise I was out! My tank strength is abysmal again and I can only achieve a breakthrough in very localized fronts. 2 more mud turns before clear again. Then the Summer begins.

BTW- How many AP's is it to build a tank Corps?

[M60A3TTS]

20 AP for a tank or mech corps.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 56 - NORTHERN FRONT[/center]

Been a while but here is an update of my game against David and Sean. This is the Northern Front...not much going on as usual. I've kept most of my Finns out of the no Finn zone to preserve their morale. They have built waves of defense in depth to make the Pro's pay when they come.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 56 - CENTER[/center]

Here is the culmination of the Summer campaign so far. A nice little pocket but it has been paid for with a lot of blood. The pocket was formed in one turn but a variety of reasons kept me from sealing it. First I had to keep my mech dispersed so the Pro's wouldn't know exactly where I was going to hit them. Also the Pro's have created 3-4 rows of defense in depth all over the map so any breakthrough absorbs a lot of energy. The pocket took 3 turns to seal...(its not fully isolated yet, but I seriously doubt they will break the pocket this turn) and the Pro's have hammered me every turn since I've been exposed.

All in all I'd say I've lost 100k men and 500 tanks forming this while the Pro's have lost slightly more. Inside is 17 divisions, 2 Corps, and a brigade. I also isolated 2 Tank Corps earlier but they were understrength so it wasn't a huge haul. I have made a huge hole in the front but the Pro's are recovering quickly and they face a largely burned out Wehrmacht.

I'm currently 250k men understrength and have just hit 0 armaments and 20k men left in reserve. I've already disbanded 10 Construction teams, 4 army airbases, and some depleted SU's. Worst off, with this blow taking so long to seal, it leaves me very little in the ay of strategic initiative. Sean and David are good players..going to be a long summer.

[smokindave34]

Wow - I've built my fair share of forts but I've never seen that many Finnish forts! Where is your front line in the south? In my game with the "The Pro's" they defended the Stalino area with everything they had and prevented me from re-taking it after the blizzard.