US Air force squadron strengths?

[Have]

I was thinking of creating a Taiwan strait scenario and was wondering about the number of planes fielded by the US Pacific Air Force.

For example the 18th Wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18th_Wing) based in Kadena, Okinawa:
-44th Fighter squadron (F-15C/D)
-67th Fighter squadron (F-15C/D)
-909th Air Refueling Squadron (KC-135R)
-961st Airborne Air Control Squadron (E-3B/C).

Does anyone know how many planes these kind of squadrons have?

I found out one resource saying that these days a fighter squadron has 18 planes. So it would make 36 F-15s, but how many tankers and E-3s should there be?

[Have]

Also does anyone happen to know how many weapons do these kinds of units normally have available? I mean for example the number of Amraam missiles in storage per squadron/airbase?

[Russian Heel]

ORIGINAL: Have

Also does anyone happen to know how many weapons do these kinds of units normally have available? I mean for example the number of Amraam missiles in storage per squadron/airbase?

You're not going to get a hard answer on this. It is a forward WESTPAC AFB with 2 fighter squadrons. In the terms of a Command scenario, the answer is enough.

[AlvinS]

When I was stationed at Kadena in the early 90's with the 12th FS, each squadron had 25 F-15's 23 C models and 2 D models. The 12th was deactivated and moved to Alaska, so I imagine the 44th and 67th have about 50 aircraft between them.

[smudge56]

How dare it be classified we want to be able create our scenarios [:D].

I wish it was easy to find this info out because I get side tracked reading stories about the history of this and that. Lol [:D]

[Russian Heel]

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

How dare it be classified we want to be able create our scenarios [:D].

I wish it was easy to find this info out because I get side tracked reading stories about the history of this and that. Lol [:D]

I'm not sure how 'classified' the inventory of AMRAAMs at Kadena is. I just don't think it is something published or advertised on some easily accessible on Google ASP inventory database, but I'm sure somebody smarter than me could use a whole bunch of open source public data and piece together pretty accurate numbers of inventory. I base this on entering ASPs many times and never having to worry about clearances or being briefed about stuff being secret.

That being said, in terms of a Command scenario one can assume there are more than enough AMRAAMs and Sidewinders available.

[Have]

Of course I don't expect to get exact numbers, but even a rough ballpark figure would do. So if we assume 24 fighters per squadron would it be reasonable to assume about 500 amraams? For other high tech air to ground missiles the number might be few dozens?

The Chinese are going to have a lot of planes in this one and with low missile hit rate I believe weapon stockpiles are going to be a factor in the scenario.

[Russian Heel]

ORIGINAL: Have

Of course I don't expect to get exact numbers, but even a rough ballpark figure would do. So if we assume 24 fighters per squadron would it be reasonable to assume about 500 amraams? For other high tech air to ground missiles the number might be few dozens?

The Chinese are going to have a lot of planes in this one and with low missile hit rate I believe weapon stockpiles are going to be a factor in the scenario.

I'm not an expert on USAF pre-positioned ordnance, not sure what they would have at Kadena in terms of air to ground, but I assume if you are going to station strike A/C there TDY they would have teeth to bite with. You just didn't list any strike A/C.

Would the USAF forward deploy to CCK if there was trouble and the US was actively supporting ROC?

[Tomcat84]

Just FYI, I have been working on a China Taiwan scenario for a while now, it's been testing in closed beta for a bit. I am planning to put the (hopefully) finishing touches on it this sunday and put it out for a public round of test before deeming it ready to go for the community scenario pack.

My scenario focuses purely on air to air Defensive Counter Air for the Taiwanese + Allies side, with about a three hour duration, facing several waves of Chinese air attacks.

I'm eager to see what you will come up with as well of course, especially if it also involves naval/missile units or is more of an offensive against China. If it's similar then obviously also of course feel free to give your take on it.

Here's my description and side briefing for the scenario:

Background

Over the past couple of months, internal struggles in China have seen a shift in the political leadership towards a more conservative, communist direction. This has led to a rising tension concerning Taiwan, with threatening rhetoric increasing in recent weeks.

With the west only just finished with yet another military intervention, this one in Syria, China feels bold enough to make a military gamble, a long awaited but never expected armed conflict with Taiwan.

In recent days the situation has escalated severely, with several armed clashes among ships and also near the Spratley islands. All signs point to China attempting to find an excuse to go to war. The sinking of a Chinese frigate yesterday by Taiwanese vessels returning fire seems to have done it, with China claiming it as unprovoked in the UN security council and demanding measures against Taiwan. The western nations are not buying it and claim to have evidence of Chinese involvement, leaving the UN a divided body.

China was banking on a lack of response due to the UN's inflexibility and supposed American war weariness, and although the USA's deployment scope is limited right now, unexpected allies have come to Taiwan's aid, with Japan, Singapore, Australia and Korea all deploying assets. A hastily assembled Rapid Response Force has quickly deployed to Taiwan and is about to begin assisting the Taiwanese in defensive operations.

China has lost its planned window of opportunity, but political pride proves to be too strong to stop events set in motion, and they hope to be able to still overwhelm the assembled force and quickly force the issue.



Scenario Author notes

This scenario is not necessarily intended to be an accurate recreation of what a real Chinese attack would look like. It focuses specifically on an air war only aspect, and intends to see how a clash of modern generation fighters might play out. In addition you only control 2 of the 4 FAORs in order to keep things somewhat manageable. You will find that the Chinese SAM threat has a reduced reach over the straits, there is no naval element, nor are there hordes of ballistic missiles flying. This is pure air warfare. The all out conflict will have to wait for a future installment.View this as a warmup

Briefing:

FAOR C-D Orders


Situation

The general situation is as briefed. Chinese air offensive operations are expected to commence in the very near future. Our forces are readying and taking over defensive responsibilities in the Taiwan area at 03/23/0000Z. Our offensive forces are not yet in place, current posture is defensive only.

Overview

The airspace west of Taiwan has been divided into four FAORs, Alpha through Delta, as depicted below:



You will be in charge of FAORs Charlie and Delta for the first three hour Vul time. You will find ROCAF forces are currently manning all FAORs and RTBing soon. Setup your forces, take over your FAORs NLT 00:00Z and defend them until 03:00Z at which point you will handover to the next controller.


Threat

Intel suggests an imminent Chinese attack. Current estimate is of an air only offensive driven primarily by the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF). Threat is expected mostly from the western areas, large scale envelopment maneuvers are not assessed to be likely, but cannot be ruled out. Expectation is that an initial enemy push will not necessarily consist of their most capable airframes, but instead will be to test our reactions, drain our missiles, and attrit if able with less capable assets. Expect more capable airframes and pilots in follow on attack waves. Strikers are assessed to only be capable of employing General Purpose Bombs (GPBs) and Laser Guided Bombs (LGBs). Standoff weapons (cruise missiles etc.) are not thought to be operational in theater.

Most likely enemy course of action

A series of attack waves across all FAORs, with intial forces meant to attrit missiles and jets if able, follow on waves to target HVAAs and act as OCA, with strikers following last to strike military airfields and possibly the city of Taipei.

Most dangerous enemy course of action

A coordinated mass push through one FAOR lane, with heavy jamming to overwhelm our defenses, and target our HVAAs and important areas. However, current intel suggests it is not likely that the PLAAF is able to coordinate such a heavy push through a single FAOR.


Enemy Assets

Fuzhou AF:
8th Air Regiment
Approx. 60-90 J-10A Vigorous Dragon (PL-12 / PL-9)


Longtian AF:
40th and 41st Air Regiment
Approx. 70-90 J-11A/J-11B Flanker (AA-10C / AA-11 and PL-12 / PL-9)


Luocheng - Huian AF:
85th Air Brigade and 83rd Air Regiment
Approx. 40-60 SU-30MKK/SU-30MKK2 Flanker (AA-12 / AA-11)
Approx. 30-50 JH-7A Flounder (PL-8 and GPB or LGBs)

Qingyang AF:
47th and 28th Air Regiment
Approx. 5 Y-8CA/Y-8G Cub (Offensive ECM)
Approx. 40-60 H-6E Badger (FAB-500/FAB-1000)

Zhangzhou AF:
86th and 78th Air Brigade
Approx. 50-70 J-7G Fishbed (PL-8)
Approx. 40-60 J8F Finback (PL-8 and unconfirmed PL-12)

Shantou AF:
13th Air Regiment
Approx. 40-60 Q5D Fantan (GPB or LGBs. No AA missiles)


Friendly Forces

FAOR C/D Area (under your control)

Taipei Songshan Airport:
Awaiting arrival of F-15C Eagles (44th FS) deploying from Kadena AFB, Japan

Hualien AB
36 x F-16C Blk 20 Falcon (26 and 27th TFG (ROCAF))
12 x F-22A Raptor (90th FS)

Hsinchu AB
24 x Mirage 2000-5 (42nd TFG (ROCAF))
10 x F/A-18F Super Hornet (No. 1 Sqn (RAAF))

Ching Chuan Kang AB/Taichung Airport
24 x F-CK-1A IDF (7th TFG (ROCAF))
10 x F-16C Blk 52 Falcon (143 Sqn (RSAF))
1 x KC-135R Stratotanker (112 Sqn (RSAF))

Kadena AFB (Japan):
8 x KC-10A Extender (60th and 305th AMW)
9 x KC-135R Stratotanker (6th and 22nd ARW)
5 x E-3B/C Sentry (962nd and 964th AACS)
3 x RC-135W Rivet Joint (38th RS)
18 x F-15C Eagle (44th FS)*

*10 Eagles have just taken off enroute to Taipei. They have only a limited loadout, so you will have to chose if you want to employ them at the end of the ferry or land and rearm them with a heavier loadout first.


FAOR A/B Area (controlled by Aster #2 E-767)

Chiayi AB
24 x F-16C Blk 20 Falcon (21st TFG (ROCAF))
24 x F-16C Blk 50 Falcon (77th FS)

Tainan AB
12 x F-15J Eagle Plus (23 Hikotai (JASDF))
10 x F-15K Eagle (122 FS (ROKAF))

Pingtung AB
6 x E-2K Hawkeye (2 EWS (ROCAF))
2 x E-767 Sentinel (Keikai Kokutai (JASDF))

Taitung AB
24 x F-5E Tiger II (44th/45th TFS (ROCAF))
10 x F-22A Raptor (27th FS)


Mission

Maintain control of your part of Taiwanese airspace, deflect any threat by Chinese forces, and preserve all key installations and population targets on Taiwan. Inflict maximum losses on any Chinese offensive force.

Execution

At your discretion. Be mindful of your limited amount of forces and the length of your vul. Stay clear of FAORs Alpha and Bravo, but be mindful of lane crossers entering your FAORs. Do not pursue forces into the Chinese MEZ, remain defensive. Be aware at all times of your HVAAs, loss of AWACS will severely hamper the execution of your mission.

ROE

Any air contact identified as not friendly and originating from Chinese airspace may be considered as hostile and targeted with all means at your disposal.




I do not have the answers to your questions on AMRAAM stockpiles or squadron sizes. I guesstimated 18 to 24 jets per squadron, and added a reasonable stockpile of missiles. But I didn't want the player to feel he has unlimited so he is challenged a bit if he is careless.

[bsq]

Full loadout and 2 or 3 reloads sounds about right. 18 or 24 aircraft per CAF Squadron, perhaps 12 tankers and 3 or 4 E-3B's - as there are only 4 assigned to PACAF in total shared between Kadena and Elmendorf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-3_Sentry)

[Have]

ORIGINAL: Tomcat84

Just FYI, I have been working on a China Taiwan scenario for a while now, it's been testing in closed beta for a bit. I am planning to put the (hopefully) finishing touches on it this sunday and put it out for a public round of test before deeming it ready to go for the community scenario pack.

My scenario focuses purely on air to air Defensive Counter Air for the Taiwanese + Allies side, with about a three hour duration, facing several waves of Chinese air attacks.

Looks interesting! I look forward playing your scenario.

My scenario plan is based on a 2009 RAND report (http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG888.html) which emphasises the use of short range ballistic missiles as a opening move against Taiwanese airbases and using cruise missiles to threaten us bases in Japan. In that mind I will also use at least some naval units since both Japan and Taiwan have very strong naval anti-air capability. I'm also thinking to give the chinese DF-21 anti-ship ballistic missiles to deny US Navy close access to the battle area.

I wonder and fear how Command will handle such a large number of units.

[Tomcat84]

Sounds good! Looking forward to it. And glad we weren't doing double work

[Elouda]

The scenario I'm working on (which is based on an escalation of the ongoing island dispute) at the moment has these squadrons at the following strengths;

44th FS - 24x F-15C
67th FS - 24x F-15C
909th ARS - 15x KC-135R
961st AACS - 3x E-3B (or should this be E-3C?)

Also based there is the 82nd RS with 2x RC-135.

I based these numbers on a Globalsecurity report which listed the aircraft at time (early 2000s) based there as;

F-15: 48
MC-130: 9
KC-135: 15
RC-135: 1-2
E-3 AWACS: 2
P-3: 3-10
HH-60: 9
MC-130H/P: 10
C-130: 1
C-12: 2

I am not sure if these are still valid, but seemed a decent starting point. If anyone has more detail it would be great.

[Tomcat84]

I would just say make sure at least with the fighters not to have them all 48 be serviceable as that would not be very realistic.

[smudge56]

I was watching the baloogan video where you were discussing it sounds very interesting.

[Elouda]

ORIGINAL: Tomcat84

I would just say make sure at least with the fighters not to have them all 48 be serviceable as that would not be very realistic.

I typically have about 15-25% of most squadrons on maintenance. The exceptions are those units that are either at the end of their service lives or have other reasons for more maintenance (like the Taiwanese S-2T's in my scenario, which have like 40-50% on maintenance).

[Have]

So Command does not simulate maintenance in its airfield operations logic? So if I have a 24 plane squadron, I should manually set the plane number to something like 18 or so.

If that is the case, then maintenance thing could be a nice future feature for longer scenarios where planes are flying multiple sorties and eventually need servicing.

[Tomcat84]

no you can add the 24 planes but you should manually set a couple to the loadout "maintenance unavailable" Or give a unit a certain loadout but change the ready time to the longer value you want (although im pretty sure the user can "cheat" and just reload the loadout and get the default potentially shorter time remaining)

[Russian Heel]

You should remember that 24 assigned or authorized a/c doesn't often mean that is how many are actually available on the base for the squadron. Things like PDM (depot maintenance) might have 1 to 2 airframes rotating through. They won't even be onsite so that can factor into cleaning up clutter on the ramp and in your hangers, and allow for more planes to be TDY there if needed. I'd think if the crap was about to hit the fan with the possibility of some major air to air the USAF would move the Dicemen or The Bulldogs from Elmendorf in theater in a hurry. PACAF has 3 squadrons of shiny F-22s that I think would want to be utilized.

B-52s/tankers at Anderson, various support craft at Yakota, not even mentioning Kunsan/Osan. That's just US controlled places. You have a lot more to work with than just Kadena.