Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

[geofflambert]

I'm playing the J side for the first time and I'm sure I'm doing stuff wrong (as well as losing badly[8|]) but I'd like to learn from this. I found recently that my refineries in the HI are not keeping up with my usage. I took the following steps: reduced airframe and engine production to only the essentials, idled some vehicle, armaments and HI factories, and expanded some refinery cap in the HI a little bit. Here is the tracker chart. I'm sure the manpower figure will be unreadable, it is 758,727. I've provided a fill in the blank form below. Those of you who have opinions based on experience, kindly fill in the target number you would want to see in the five fields enumerated. Wisecracks about my competancy are welcome.

[bartrat]

What date is that screen shot from? Also have you captured all the oil centers in DEI? what about Burma?

[pws1225]

You probably want to shut down all but one Merchant shipyard and stop production of all xAKs. You already have a ton of merchant shipping and you'll still turn out your TKs. This little adjustment saves a wagon load of HI.

[Skyros]

8/28/42

[rustysi]

Geof, My experience is a bit limited but I started playing as Japan (jumped into the deep end) , but I can tell you what I've read here. HI, you should shoot for 3-4 million by '45 (or by time SRA cut off). You may not get there, but they say you should try. Anyway the more the merrier. Armaments, once it hits 100k start turning some off. Not sure about the rest yet. One thing I will say here is that your oil centers are low. I'm currently (3rd start) in a scen1 Japan vs AI and my oil is at 1968 (Feb 6 '42) and I still have 216 more damaged. Ref. is low too, but they're located at most oil centers so you can kill two birds with one stone. W/O the oil for fuel you will have no HI, and your world revolves around HI.

[rustysi]

Oh, a couple more that I remember. Don't worry about manpower, I've read its all but impossible to run out. Never turn off HI if you have the inputs needed to keep it going. Of course you do need fuel for your navy, but I've read its better to try to minimize fleet fuel usage than turn off HI.

[Lokasenna]

Your HI total looks decent for 8/28/42, IMO. You also have a fair amount of ARM/VEH points. You have a boatload of NavSy/MerSy - shut those off and build out those points so they aren't wasted.

Where you're low is Oil/Fuel and Supply. Did you capture Oil/Refinery centers in extremely damaged condition (looks like you have 513 damaged Refineries)? Did you repair any? Are you playing a DBB mod where refineries do not produce Supply? Did you run the IJN all over the map, possibly including a lot of Full Speed runs?

It looks like you're only "short" 191 Oil centers, so you'll run out of Oil globally in 500 days. That's not so bad - that's early in '44. I suspect that the reason you're short on Fuel is because you have damaged Oil and Refinery centers that you never repaired. Maybe it wasn't worth repairing them once you'd captured them, I don't know, but I think that's the root cause.


What do you mean by "not keeping up with my usage"?

[EHansen]

Did you not capture a lot of oil centers? You should capture 2000+ less what is damages and you start with 224. If you had captured them and they were
severely damaged they should show up on the chart something like Oil Centers 1101(1200) to show a lot damaged.
That chart only shows 8 damaged and 1101 available.

[wyrmmy]

The main problem is that I still hold Java, Sumatra and Burma. Hence the standing replay offer with a DEI centric strategy from you. [:'(]

I also assume part of the problem was the long term carrier support for your SoPac invasions.

[pws1225]

ORIGINAL: wyrmm

The main problem is that I still hold Java, Sumatra and Burma. Hence the standing replay offer with a DEI centric strategy from you. [:'(]

I also assume part of the problem was the long term carrier support for your SoPac invasions.

Well now, that would bugger things up. [:'(]

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: bartrat

What date is that screen shot from? Also have you captured all the oil centers in DEI? what about Burma?

The date is on the bottom (8-24-42) and sadly no and no.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: pws1225

You probably want to shut down all but one Merchant shipyard and stop production of all xAKs. You already have a ton of merchant shipping and you'll still turn out your TKs. This little adjustment saves a wagon load of HI.

I shut those down on 12/7/41. Just TKs being built. I have been building those landing barge thingies, probably don't need those.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Your HI total looks decent for 8/28/42, IMO. You also have a fair amount of ARM/VEH points. You have a boatload of NavSy/MerSy - shut those off and build out those points so they aren't wasted.

Where you're low is Oil/Fuel and Supply. Did you capture Oil/Refinery centers in extremely damaged condition (looks like you have 513 damaged Refineries)? Did you repair any? Are you playing a DBB mod where refineries do not produce Supply? Did you run the IJN all over the map, possibly including a lot of Full Speed runs?

It looks like you're only "short" 191 Oil centers, so you'll run out of Oil globally in 500 days. That's not so bad - that's early in '44. I suspect that the reason you're short on Fuel is because you have damaged Oil and Refinery centers that you never repaired. Maybe it wasn't worth repairing them once you'd captured them, I don't know, but I think that's the root cause.


What do you mean by "not keeping up with my usage"?

You can see on the bottom of the tracker screen DBB-C. I've repaired Miri (oilfield only) almost all the way. My opponent firebombed Bangkock and the refinery there is gone, but I don't see the point of repairing it and shipping oil there for it to refine. Bangkock is a very interesting name, by the way.
I have been shipping oil to Port Arthur because Manchukuo seems to be able to produce sufficient supplies for themselves and China with the fuel produced there. What I mean is that the refineries in the HI all have plenty of oil, but are nearly out of fuel.
No full speed runs, and I try and have them "hover" as much as possible and using no fuel. I think that's a flaw in the game incidentally, unless you're docked or disbanded you should be using fuel even if you stay in one hex. I'm only now landing on Java and wyrmm is giving me all sorts of grief. I'm thinking he's built up Sumatra but I don't think it'll be too much trouble once I have Java under control.

I'm just mystified by th HI. I haven't shipped any fuel out of there in quite some time. Where's the fuel going?

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: wyrmm

The main problem is that I still hold Java, Sumatra and Burma. Hence the standing replay offer with a DEI centric strategy from you. [:'(]

I also assume part of the problem was the long term carrier support for your SoPac invasions.

Most days the KB just sits in one hex or only moves one or two. During that period at Fiji it was mostly motionless where you couldn't see it and just came in once in a while and got lucky a bunch. The KBs going to have to move alot just now though, once I let you sink some of it there will be less usage. [;)] I don't go anywhere without BBs though, I expect that's a problem.

[geofflambert]

I remember Steve Garvey using the euphemism "pumping chicks". I hear Thailand is quite the sex tourism destination. I wonder if any of those tourists describe it as "going Bangkock". [:'(]

[pws1225]

You don't need to go to Bangkok. You've already been screwed.[:D]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Your Supply is low and the ratio of ac to engines is off. I'd guess that you have not balanced your ac production with your engines. I'd also guess you have overexpanded your ac production. IJ economy requires a soft hand, not a hard fist. [;)]

Supply, HI, and fuel are all things that you have to monitor carefully and that you will never have enough of.

Then looking to the endgame, the reason that you need to stockpile HI is so that your economy can keep functioning. What you build at that time is: AC, Engines, VEH, and ARM. Since you are going to convert HI into AC, Engines, VEH, or ARM it means some of these can be same as stockpiling HI. So, I never turn off ARM or VEH. Those points are the same as HI, except they've been translated into a more final product. You will use them all if you survive to the end. Engines, there are some models you know you will need all the way to the end of the game: Ha-45, Ha-33 and to some extent Ha-32. So large pools of these are also the same as HI; you know you will use them if you survive.

AC are the only one that you can't really stockpile from the early game. In fact, if you assume that you have a fixed amount of HI for the game (not a bad assumption), then every Zeke you build early is one less Frank that you will be able to build later. Clearly you want more Franks in '45, but now you have to balance this against what you need to achieve in '42. My point is that if you build A6M ( and other early planes indiscriminately), to achieve success in '42 you will have doomed yourself in '45 as you will not have the HI/supply to build the Franks/Sams that you need then.

Playing the IJ is about striking a careful balance; build just what you need to achieve your '42 goals but not more and then be able to build like crazy your final generation planes which are capable of saving you IF you can build enough. Shinden, Ki-83, Frank ... these planes (among a select few others) if you have enough of them CAN hold the lines in '45.

[offenseman]

ORIGINAL: wyrmm

The main problem is that I still hold Java, Sumatra and Burma. Hence the standing replay offer with a DEI centric strategy from you. [:'(]

I also assume part of the problem was the long term carrier support for your SoPac invasions.

Geoff, this is the Kobiyashi Maru scenario. TBH I'd take the offer of a replay. Now that you have seen what the Japanese side looks like and can make allowances for the reality of that. Unfortunately, economically you are in late 1944 as far as oil production goes and it is going to be a game where you are simply holding on until the end. Others may disagree with me but without that oil, 1943 is looking to be a LONG grueling year and perhaps very little fun for you.

If you opt for the replay, I will anxiously await the next AAR. [:)]

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: offenseman

ORIGINAL: wyrmm

The main problem is that I still hold Java, Sumatra and Burma. Hence the standing replay offer with a DEI centric strategy from you. [:'(]

I also assume part of the problem was the long term carrier support for your SoPac invasions.

Geoff, this is the Kobiyashi Maru scenario. TBH I'd take the offer of a replay. Now that you have seen what the Japanese side looks like and can make allowances for the reality of that. Unfortunately, economically you are in late 1944 as far as oil production goes and it is going to be a game where you are simply holding on until the end. Others may disagree with me but without that oil, 1943 is looking to be a LONG grueling year and perhaps very little fun for you.

If you opt for the replay, I will anxiously await the next AAR. [:)]


I'm still having fun. Just put two fish in the Enterprise.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


Your Supply is low and the ratio of ac to engines is off. I'd guess that you have not balanced your ac production with your engines. I'd also guess you have overexpanded your ac production. IJ economy requires a soft hand, not a hard fist. [;)]

Supply, HI, and fuel are all things that you have to monitor carefully and that you will never have enough of.

Then looking to the endgame, the reason that you need to stockpile HI is so that your economy can keep functioning. What you build at that time is: AC, Engines, VEH, and ARM. Since you are going to convert HI into AC, Engines, VEH, or ARM it means some of these can be same as stockpiling HI. So, I never turn off ARM or VEH. Those points are the same as HI, except they've been translated into a more final product. You will use them all if you survive to the end. Engines, there are some models you know you will need all the way to the end of the game: Ha-45, Ha-33 and to some extent Ha-32. So large pools of these are also the same as HI; you know you will use them if you survive.

AC are the only one that you can't really stockpile from the early game. In fact, if you assume that you have a fixed amount of HI for the game (not a bad assumption), then every Zeke you build early is one less Frank that you will be able to build later. Clearly you want more Franks in '45, but now you have to balance this against what you need to achieve in '42. My point is that if you build A6M ( and other early planes indiscriminately), to achieve success in '42 you will have doomed yourself in '45 as you will not have the HI/supply to build the Franks/Sams that you need then.

Playing the IJ is about striking a careful balance; build just what you need to achieve your '42 goals but not more and then be able to build like crazy your final generation planes which are capable of saving you IF you can build enough. Shinden, Ki-83, Frank ... these planes (among a select few others) if you have enough of them CAN hold the lines in '45.

I've already cut way back on the A6Ms but I'm going wild with the Tojos right now. There's no point making too many Naval planes as IJN recruits are hard to come by.