Any game comparisons? Not sure what to expect from this game.

[toddtreadway]

I am not sure what to expect from this game. I've played a couple of Frank's other titles (Napoleon), and liked them.

Is it like any other games out there?

[Tamas]

I should be able to post a sort of introductory AAR which I have started working on, tomorrow.

Until then, one of the major things to point out is the WEGO system in the game. Meaning that both players (one may be the AI of course, and it is also a competent one, by the way) issue their orders for the turn, and then they are resolved simultaneously. This creates a great dynamic, a sort of uncertainty that feels much more realistic than traditional turn based games.

Another thing is the emphasis on logistics: your army needs supplies and fuel, and it is not just your "income" of these which is limited but also your ability to get them to the troops. Determining your priorities, being able to anticipate what will be needed, and being able to adjust your plans to changing circumstances is a big part of the game.

And perhaps most importantly, all of the above is done with a rather simple interface, thanks to the game design which I find quite elegant.

[sullafelix]

If you like realistic boardgames with real thought behind using your units and having to think ahead, with the addition of a first class AI you will like this game.

I really cannot think of a computer wargame that matches up in how logistics is everything.

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."

The map and interface are not crowded or jumbled up on one another and you do not have to worry about movement lines going all over the map.

[freeboy]

are leaders modeled?


NEED AAR! lol
thanks to all the team this looks great!

[Rosseau]

That the AI is also able to play the Allied side (with all those complex choices) seems pretty impressive. Of course, I haven't tried it out yet. Also seems like hotseat will be of good value to help learn both sides of the game. The designer's previous WWI game was unique, but replayability was low. This offering seems much better in that regard.

[Ralph1961]

I beta tested the game and the best comparison is to the Guns of August in that you have to carefully get your units combat supply so that they can launch offensives. The WEGO system takes a little getting used to.
The game should have good replay ability( I differ with the other poster in that I find Guns of August offers many different strategies)
The Germans cannot stop the Allied advance but they win by making the Allies take losses and slowing the advance.
Something that the player has to consider is units both arriving and withdrawing, remember that Italy turned into something of a "side show"
Good "mid level" game for someone that wants to get in a war gaming fix but doesn't have tons of time.

[zgrant]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

are leaders modeled?


NEED AAR! lol
thanks to all the team this looks great!

Leaders are not modeled with counters if that is what you are asking. I'm pretty sure an AAR will be posted soon.

[zgrant]

ORIGINAL: toddtreadway

I am not sure what to expect from this game. I've played a couple of Frank's other titles (Napoleon), and liked them.

Is it like any other games out there?

Tamas and sulla05 have good descriptions of the game. PFE is more a game about logistics than it is combat, so it reminds me of Campaigns on the Danube in that logistics is very important. In CoD if you didn't have enough supplies stored up, you were sunk. In PFE if you don't ensure your units are in supply, both fuel and combat, you are also in trouble.

[freeboy]

ORIGINAL: zgrant

ORIGINAL: toddtreadway

I am not sure what to expect from this game. I've played a couple of Frank's other titles (Napoleon), and liked them.

Is it like any other games out there?

Tamas and sulla05 have good descriptions of the game. PFE is more a game about logistics than it is combat, so it reminds me of Campaigns on the Danube in that logistics is very important. In CoD if you didn't have enough supplies stored up, you were sunk. In PFE if you don't ensure your units are in supply, both fuel and combat, you are also in trouble.

not counters.. actually that there are leaders influencing supplies and combat efficiencies... IMO leaders are the most important aspect, and to stress supplies and leave them out wouldbe odd .. thanks

[Rosseau]

Read the manual, and could be a sweet spot in terms of complexity. After playing both sides to completion in GoA, I sorta had my fill, but PFE has more variety scenario-wise. One thing I remember about GoA, was you really had to sweat the decisions. No mindlessly moving counters around. It really stood out in that respect.

[wodin]

Always like leaders being modeled..not only for immersion but for extra gameplay purposes.

ORIGINAL: freeboy

are leaders modeled?


NEED AAR! lol
thanks to all the team this looks great!

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: zgrant
PFE is more a game about logistics than it is combat... In PFE if you don't ensure your units are in supply, both fuel and combat, you are also in trouble.

I want to echo this. Players really need to think hard about both combat supply and fuel, and how to best balance them and prepare for what you want to do next. Between that and the simultaneous movement (which always seems to disrupt whatever grand plans you make!), the game takes some getting used to. I provided some player notes up above in the War Room.

I will also emphasize the replayability of this game. It is simple enough and has a very manageable OOB, so it plays quickly. Easy to learn and play, difficult to master. [8D]

[zgrant]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

not counters.. actually that there are leaders influencing supplies and combat efficiencies... IMO leaders are the most important aspect, and to stress supplies and leave them out would be odd .. thanks

So, leaders are not present in this game in the way you are describing. Units are mainly divisions and some brigades. They are rated at different levels of effectiveness for both combat and how much disruption they can sustain before they begin to become less effective.

Supply is controlled by the player to a point. Both Allied and German players can set a slider indicating which type of supply has priority, fuel or combat supply. However, the amount that enters the theater is determined by the game and can vary from turn to turn.

Fuel supply is on the left part of the slider and combat supply is on the right. Players can set the slider to 100% combat supply, but that means 0 fuel will be added that turn. The opposite is true, 100% fuel means 0 combat supplies. The challenge is to find the correct balance for the situation you are facing and it can change from turn to turn. Are you the Germans racing divisions from northern Italy to southern Italy to stem the flow of Allied troops? Then you need more fuel but sacrifice building up combat supplies for future battles. Do you need to prepare your divisions for a battle in a couple turns? Then you need more combat supply, but that might limit your fuel to exploit any victories you achieve.

The player has no way of knowing how many fuel or combat supply points will enter the theater and from what I can tell, other historical factors in WWII affect how much supply each side receives. For example leading up to June of 1944 and a bit after, supplies flow in less readily for the Allies as they prep for D Day in France. Also, the Germans seem to receive far fewer combat supplies and practically zero fuel during the Ardennes offensive.

Weather also affects how well supplies travel from supply points to units and the German player can bomb Allied ports and beach heads, but be careful, the Allies have more air power points and will generally eliminate any bombing missions easily.

[PKH]

The manual goes over how the supply capacity changes over the course of the game. For allies it increases until turn 80 and then decreases. For the axis it depends on controlling Rome and Verona + a couple of special rules.
It seems that for the allies it also depends on the capacity of the ports they control, but I'm not sure if port capacity is just added to the other values listed in the manual or they interact in some other way.

[Alex1812]

The game looks nice, clear and enjoyable to play. It's more simple than WITE but it has great WEGO system and manual supply and reinforcement control.

[jack54]

Wow...This is interesting unfortunately I've never had much interest in the Italian theatre but Frank Hunter makes nice games and I love WEGO. Oh boy something else to think about.

[zgrant]

ORIGINAL: rosseau
The designer's previous WWI game was unique, but replayability was low. This offering seems much better in that regard.

Frank designed a game that allows the player to try many different approaches to attacking and defending Italy. This increases the replay value in my opinion. While testing the pbem feature as the Germans, I remember being surprised by the Allied player when he invaded not the western coast, but the eastern coast of Italy. Completely threw me for a loop. Being able to try out "what if" type situations is very possible and should prevent the game from being old too quickly; however, this is a very subjective topic and your mileage may vary.