Combat Mission: Market Garden

[Alchenar]

They have actually made some noises about trying to unify their game/engine system, of course on Battlefront time that could be years away.

I'm also somewhat surprised by the price complaints. Sure if you buy ALL THE EXPANSIONS at once it gets pretty expensive, but the base game is priced less than a AAA mainstream title. Expansions are similarly priced but each one tends to get you a similar amount of content (a couple of new OOBs, a new Campaign or two, a couple of dozen scenarios) as the base game.

[aaatoysandmore]

Not everyone is interested in new OOB's or a new campaign (that one can build themselves I might add) or two and a couple of dozen scenarios. One game can do it all really if they would just give us everything in one game. This module based system is just a money grab, no if's and's or but's about it. You don't or didn't see Matrixgames do that with Panzer Command. In fact they even gave us Osfront for free if we own Panzer Command: Karkov beforehand. That's a real good bargain and price to me. So, I will continue to buy Matrixgames Panzer Command series over Battlefront's. No DRM either I might add.

[Alchenar]

... but you don't have to buy the modules if you don't want them?

I'm really struggling to see how it's an unfair money grab. They make a game. Sell it. Make expansions to that game. Sell those. The expansions materially add to the content of the base game in a non-trivial way.

It's odd to be writing this because I'm usually on the 'wargames should be cheaper' side of the argument, but you don't seem to be giving any reason for thinking you shouldn't have to pay for the modules beyond a sheer sense of entitlement.

e: in fact it's doubly weird because modular content is one of the best things to have happened to PC gaming as a result of digital distribution. It lets you produce content and work on your engine in the same time that's gotten Battlefront into a bit of a tangle with regards to their shop, but they're still putting out products at a rate that puts any Matrix affiliated developer to shame.

[aaatoysandmore]

Depends on how one looks at it. I see it as a money grab because the original combat mission were sold in theaters and now they just broke it down into money grab modules. Same thing really. The ai is still piss pitiful as before. I can either go down the edges of the map or just sit and wait. There's no randomly made maps anymore, everything has to be player made or they make them. Not replays in TCP/IP and so many other things. Reduce the amount of content and sell for the same or more. Yeah that's the ticket. I just won't buy into it, you're more than welcome to.

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: Ranger33

To me it's worth the price just for the unique experience offered. The games never leave my hard-drive, partly because they are great, partly because of PITA experiences with the DRM and limited activations [;)]. Every gripe I have with the engine and requested features seem to be getting addressed over time. Some people don't like the idea of the paid engine updates, but I think it's a fantastic idea for giving longevity to older titles.

The thing I don't get is why the games seem to be developed separately using *almost* the same code, instead of just having a single line of engine development and plugging new content into it. Now they have a half-dozen different patches to make for every bug fix, balance tweak, etc instead of one. I would like to see something along the lines of DCS World.

Joe, enjoyed your message...but for us acronym handicapped, what does "PITA" and "DCS" mean? [&:]

Patrick

[z1812]

For serious wargamers this is truly a wonderful game. I have all the Battlefront Combat Mission Series and modules and I don't regret a single purchase.

They are well worth the money.

Combat Mission is, in my view, is the finest tactical combat game available.

[mikkey]

Patrick, this is PITA[;)] and DCS is Digital Combat Simulator

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: mikkey

Patrick, this is PITA[;)] and DCS is Digital Combat Simulator

Thank you mikkey!

Patrick

[bairdlander2]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Not everyone is interested in new OOB's or a new campaign (that one can build themselves I might add) or two and a couple of dozen scenarios. One game can do it all really if they would just give us everything in one game. This module based system is just a money grab, no if's and's or but's about it. You don't or didn't see Matrixgames do that with Panzer Command. In fact they even gave us Osfront for free if we own Panzer Command: Karkov beforehand. That's a real good bargain and price to me. So, I will continue to buy Matrixgames Panzer Command series over Battlefront's. No DRM either I might add.

Comparing PC to CBM is like apples and oranges,PC looks like crap compared to CBM

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Not everyone is interested in new OOB's or a new campaign (that one can build themselves I might add) or two and a couple of dozen scenarios. One game can do it all really if they would just give us everything in one game. This module based system is just a money grab, no if's and's or but's about it. You don't or didn't see Matrixgames do that with Panzer Command. In fact they even gave us Osfront for free if we own Panzer Command: Karkov beforehand. That's a real good bargain and price to me. So, I will continue to buy Matrixgames Panzer Command series over Battlefront's. No DRM either I might add.

Comparing PC to CBM is like apples and oranges,PC looks like crap compared to CBM

Mike, I agree CBM looks fantastic but PC looks pretty good...and plays well too.

Patrick

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Not everyone is interested in new OOB's or a new campaign (that one can build themselves I might add) or two and a couple of dozen scenarios. One game can do it all really if they would just give us everything in one game. This module based system is just a money grab, no if's and's or but's about it. You don't or didn't see Matrixgames do that with Panzer Command. In fact they even gave us Osfront for free if we own Panzer Command: Karkov beforehand. That's a real good bargain and price to me. So, I will continue to buy Matrixgames Panzer Command series over Battlefront's. No DRM either I might add.

Comparing PC to CBM is like apples and oranges,PC looks like crap compared to CBM

Looks does not a good game make. Perhaps you are an eye candy baby, I am not. I prefer Panzer Command over CMx2 any day. At least Panzer Command has an ai worth playing against. Cmx2 does not. Same old ai that was in Combat Mission old series. Falls for the same crap that the old one fell for.

[Alchenar]

I'd actually agree with the AI complaints (fortunately Red Thunder includes an AI upgrade for the engine that lets it finally react to triggers mid battle), those just seem like reasons not to get CM in the first place, not reasons to complain about the price structure.

[garymiboy]

Hi,guys,


just read through these posts having both Panzer command:ostfront..and CM:battle for normandy. both have their merits this is my take. both are good tactically but AI is stronger on PC:O. but CM:bfn wins graphics wise.though not much to chose in vehicle graphics imo.
where PC:ostfront wins is the amount of content it has in the base game alone!!..

BUT.......................everyone is missing mentioning what i think is the best by far squad based tactical and historical game out there......Achtung panzer operation star..this is how a game should be done...im not knocking the other games but this is so close to history even the [massive]maps are taken from maps from that time!!.the troop movements good the armour moves great..and the overall atmosphere of the game is amazing.and the AI is up with the very best.

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: garymiboy

BUT.......................everyone is missing mentioning what i think is the best by far squad based tactical and historical game out there......Achtung panzer operation star..this is how a game should be done...im not knocking the other games but this is so close to history even the [massive]maps are taken from maps from that time!!.the troop movements good the armour moves great..and the overall atmosphere of the game is amazing.and the AI is up with the very best.

I have not played "Achtung Panzer: Operation Star", graphically it looks fantastic [X(]...it is on my to do playlist!

Patrick

[z1812]

ORIGINAL: garymiboy

Hi,guys,


just read through these posts having both Panzer command:ostfront..and CM:battle for normandy. both have their merits this is my take. both are good tactically but AI is stronger on PC:O. but CM:bfn wins graphics wise.though not much to chose in vehicle graphics imo.
where PC:ostfront wins is the amount of content it has in the base game alone!!..

BUT.......................everyone is missing mentioning what i think is the best by far squad based tactical and historical game out there......Achtung panzer operation star..this is how a game should be done...im not knocking the other games but this is so close to history even the [massive]maps are taken from maps from that time!!.the troop movements good the armour moves great..and the overall atmosphere of the game is amazing.and the AI is up with the very best.

I do not find PCO very compelling. The combat resolution just does not work for me and the infantry model is poor. Not very much 3rd party content. The Graphics are poor.

Operation Star is pausilble real time and I much prefer wego. Being RT there is no PBEM which is my preferred way to play although I do sometimes play single player with Operation Star. There is no MP either. Graviteam is releasing a new title called Mius Front. I am hoping that it will have more modes of play.
Again not much 3rd party content. The Graphics are Excellent.

Which brings me to Combat Mission. You can play RT, Wego,PBEM, or Online MP, whichever you like. The combat resolution is excellent. The game is well supported and there is lots and lots of third party content. The Graphics are Good.

Of course everyone has their favourites and so each to their own. I am just very happy with the amount of good quality wargames available.

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: z1812

Of course everyone has their favourites and so each to their own. I am just very happy with the amount of good quality wargames available.

John, thanks for your response and yes I am happy to have a large amount of quality war games available also! [:)] Happy Gaming! [:)]

Patrick