So is it playable yet?

[Dorb]

ORIGINAL: dplummer

+1

And have to ask, where about in the Buckeye State? I'm in Columbus.

Greenville.

[YohanTM]

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls. Our group of friends has 3 copies of the game and 1 of the map and we are lifetime WiF players.

We knew the game would not be ready out of the box but certainly did not expect 5 months to pass without netplay.

I look forward to Erik's update and remain hopeful!

[bo]

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls. Our group of friends has 3 copies of the game and 1 of the map and we are lifetime WiF players.

We knew the game would not be ready out of the box but certainly did not expect 5 months to pass without netplay.

I look forward to Erik's update and remain hopeful!



As do all of us Yohan. A simple check huh! There is nothing simple here except us simpletons, we can turn simple checks into a third world war as you have seen [:D]

Can't wait for your next simple check a year from now [:(] Hopefully sooner.

Bo

[Dabrion]

It mostly makes it complicated.. by using 20years old technology.. and skill-sets.

[Numdydar]

I would really love to hear in detail, along with a financal analysis, of how you would have created a computer version of WiF which satisified your vision for it. Along with your return on investment numbers for doing it your way Dabrion.
 
It is the easiest thing in the world to bitch and moan about how this does not work, the developer is a moron for doing things this way, Matrix, should have done X instead of Y, etc. The list is endless. However, I did not (nor have I seen) anyone else willing to take this project on. Have you contacted ADG and asked if YOU can take a shot at creating a computer version using 'modern technology'? I am sure if you were willing to give them a better incentive than Matrix, they would let you try.
 
Steve and Matrix have done something that many did not think possible. Does it have issues yes. Will they be fixed, I believe so. But until the complainers here are willing to put their own time and own money into doing the same thing like Steve and Matrix have and continue to do so, I personally think everyones time would be better spent tring to help fix what we have versus just saying this is trash and just giving up. But hey, that is just me [:)]
 
But if you would rather just say "Woe is me, they did not do it the way I wanted waaa waaaa" or "It is not perfect on release.", etc., that is certainly your right and I will support your ability to do so. Just do not expect to let it go without speaking up myself. Regardless how often you do it.
 
I do know you are well versed in the game and some of your posts have been extremely helpful to me and others. So I know you can be a great asset to the forum. It is just when you go off like the above, that I find not helpful and determential. So I would much perfer the other Dabrion rather than the latter just as an FYI [:)] 

[Dabrion]

I was simply commenting on Shaddocks analysis. If the lesson you learn from this project is "complex wargames are generally hard to bring to the computer", then you fail to see the whole picture. Some parts of the decision-making that lead to the mess we see today were perhaps more important, than the inherent complexity of the problem. When you want to get a proper assessment you have to ask the right questions (beyond "who did it", as it is not about blame).

Please spare me with another iteration of the "no takers, we can be so glad they picked it up" argument. There never was a competition, else I would have know about it.

p.s.: Rather than interpreting everything I say in terms of personal attacks think about facts for moment. I don't care for Matrix and/or Steve.. beyond the fact that they dropped the ball on this project.. big time

[Dorb]

[quote]ORIGINAL: YohanTM

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls.

Hell, that was answered with the first post.[;)]
The rest is just "splash" damage. [:D]

[shaddock]

Actually the lessons I learned is that for someone with minimal experience (myself), designing and coding a computer game is an enormously complex task.
And this game has show me a lot about what to and not to do.
As well as whether or not I'm up for the job (nope!)

I'm never seeking blame, only knowledge.

Dabrion, since you know so much about coding, how about helping me a bit?

[Dabrion]

Sry if you got the impression I say you wanted to blame someone..

Send an email and tell me about your project, and what kind of help you are looking for.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I would really love to hear in detail, along with a financal analysis, of how you would have created a computer version of WiF which satisified your vision for it. Along with your return on investment numbers for doing it your way Dabrion.

It is the easiest thing in the world to bitch and moan about how this does not work, the developer is a moron for doing things this way, Matrix, should have done X instead of Y, etc. The list is endless. However, I did not (nor have I seen) anyone else willing to take this project on. Have you contacted ADG and asked if YOU can take a shot at creating a computer version using 'modern technology'? I am sure if you were willing to give them a better incentive than Matrix, they would let you try.

Steve and Matrix have done something that many did not think possible. Does it have issues yes. Will they be fixed, I believe so. But until the complainers here are willing to put their own time and own money into doing the same thing like Steve and Matrix have and continue to do so, I personally think everyones time would be better spent tring to help fix what we have versus just saying this is trash and just giving up. But hey, that is just me [:)]

But if you would rather just say "Woe is me, they did not do it the way I wanted waaa waaaa" or "It is not perfect on release.", etc., that is certainly your right and I will support your ability to do so. Just do not expect to let it go without speaking up myself. Regardless how often you do it.

I do know you are well versed in the game and some of your posts have been extremely helpful to me and others. So I know you can be a great asset to the forum. It is just when you go off like the above, that I find not helpful and determential. So I would much perfer the other Dabrion rather than the latter just as an FYI [:)] 

+1

[OttoVonBlotto]

As an outsider who didn't take this up when first released as I was going to wait until a AI was available and didn't want to buy books from America I'm sorry to say but for me I think I have dodged a bullet with this as it is looking more like a turkey every week.

Don't get me wrong I was genuinely excited about this game, the scope and look of it is amazing I have watched the forums since 2008 and given the time it's taken it certainly not beyond the whit of man and modern computers to get this even moderately right but I think so far it has fallen very far short of it's remit.

so in answer to the original question

So is it playable yet?

I'm sorry but for me and what I would want from a computer game nearly 5 months after release, I would have to say firmly No and it doesn't seem that it will be for a long time yet. quite frankly I don't now see me every buying this game, as if it's taking this long to sort solo and net play a workable email and AI are a very very long way in the future.[:(]

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Otto von Blotto

As an outsider who didn't take this up when first released as I was going to wait until a AI was available and didn't want to buy books from America I'm sorry to say but for me I think I have dodged a bullet with this as it is looking more like a turkey every week.

Don't get me wrong I was genuinely excited about this game, the scope and look of it is amazing I have watched the forums since 2008 and given the time it's taken it certainly not beyond the whit of man and modern computers to get this even moderately right but I think so far it has fallen very far short of it's remit.

so in answer to the original question

So is it playable yet?

I'm sorry but for me and what I would want from a computer game nearly 5 months after release, I would have to say firmly No and it doesn't seem that it will be for a long time yet. quite frankly I don't now see me every buying this game, as if it's taking this long to sort solo and net play a workable email and AI are a very very long way in the future.[:(]

Oh come on now Otto you are among friends how do you really feel [:(]

Bo

[OttoVonBlotto]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Otto von Blotto

As an outsider who didn't take this up when first released as I was going to wait until a AI was available and didn't want to buy books from America I'm sorry to say but for me I think I have dodged a bullet with this as it is looking more like a turkey every week.

Don't get me wrong I was genuinely excited about this game, the scope and look of it is amazing I have watched the forums since 2008 and given the time it's taken it certainly not beyond the whit of man and modern computers to get this even moderately right but I think so far it has fallen very far short of it's remit.

so in answer to the original question

So is it playable yet?

I'm sorry but for me and what I would want from a computer game nearly 5 months after release, I would have to say firmly No and it doesn't seem that it will be for a long time yet. quite frankly I don't now see me every buying this game, as if it's taking this long to sort solo and net play a workable email and AI are a very very long way in the future.[:(]

Oh come on now Otto you are among friends how do you really feel [:(]

Bo

That is my honest and heartfelt assessment, true it is without spending over £100 to see for myself and just from what I have inferred and read, I remember how vocal you were about some of the wastelands games in the past that came nowhere near as short of the mark of this did, and about how you posted about this early on before you became part of the team, I could ask you the same question why don't you say how you really feel about what's been released.?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Otto von Blotto

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Otto von Blotto

As an outsider who didn't take this up when first released as I was going to wait until a AI was available and didn't want to buy books from America I'm sorry to say but for me I think I have dodged a bullet with this as it is looking more like a turkey every week.

Don't get me wrong I was genuinely excited about this game, the scope and look of it is amazing I have watched the forums since 2008 and given the time it's taken it certainly not beyond the whit of man and modern computers to get this even moderately right but I think so far it has fallen very far short of it's remit.

so in answer to the original question


I'm sorry but for me and what I would want from a computer game nearly 5 months after release, I would have to say firmly No and it doesn't seem that it will be for a long time yet. quite frankly I don't now see me every buying this game, as if it's taking this long to sort solo and net play a workable email and AI are a very very long way in the future.[:(]

Oh come on now Otto you are among friends how do you really feel [:(]

Bo

That is my honest and heartfelt assessment, true it is without spending over £100 to see for myself and just from what I have inferred and read, I remember how vocal you were about some of the wastelands games in the past that came nowhere near as short of the mark of this did, and about how you posted about this early on before you became part of the team, I could ask you the same question why don't you say how you really feel about what's been released.?

NDA [:D]

Was not critizing you in any way sorry you took it wrong, me negative against Matrix games never[:(] Damn you got a good memory[:@]

bo

[OttoVonBlotto]

No problem or harm and no foul, I am truly glad it's been attempted and I have no beef with matrix, yourself or this game. I have tried to keep my options to myself for the most part, I think the last time I posted on this forum was just before or maybe just after the release saying why I would be waiting so I have no axe to grind.

I do still wish it the best and will be keeping an eye on it in case the situation improves.[;)]

[majordefeat]

I was a WiF board gamer a long time ago until time and reality kicked in.
I knew of the development of a computer game through updates from a relative.
I didn't involve myself in the email lists or this forum etc because it sounded like a bit of a saga.
I was happy to wait for the end of it.

Since you have asked, it seems one approach to the development of a game like this may have been to build an engine that supported vanilla wif in limited scope, to which you would add over time different expansion packs (in terms of units or maps etc). Or ideally, which can be added to over time by community / open source developers.

The advantage of such an approach would be not just in time to develop, but cashflow through the development process. Essentially, you are asking people to pay for the underlying engine, which is itself playable, and then again for modules, which add to the range of play.

I don't disagree that building wif the game is itself a grand achievement. I think the single player version is really quite excellent. The thing is though, the product is now on the market, it is being sold to people who are now just customers, and not wif fanboys / people who have tracked its trajectory over time.

In response to concerns which are raised now about the full functionality of the product, it may be able to point to the loyal customer base which has followed the development of the product over time, the technical complexity of the product, the pathway / timeline for resolution of bugs.

I'm not sure how far these arguments will fly for people who are new consumers for Wif whether board or computer, who are going to be more interested in getting value for money.

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I would really love to hear in detail, along with a financal analysis, of how you would have created a computer version of WiF which satisified your vision for it. Along with your return on investment numbers for doing it your way Dabrion.

It is the easiest thing in the world to bitch and moan about how this does not work, the developer is a moron for doing things this way, Matrix, should have done X instead of Y, etc. The list is endless. However, I did not (nor have I seen) anyone else willing to take this project on. Have you contacted ADG and asked if YOU can take a shot at creating a computer version using 'modern technology'? I am sure if you were willing to give them a better incentive than Matrix, they would let you try.

Steve and Matrix have done something that many did not think possible. Does it have issues yes. Will they be fixed, I believe so. But until the complainers here are willing to put their own time and own money into doing the same thing like Steve and Matrix have and continue to do so, I personally think everyones time would be better spent tring to help fix what we have versus just saying this is trash and just giving up. But hey, that is just me [:)]

But if you would rather just say "Woe is me, they did not do it the way I wanted waaa waaaa" or "It is not perfect on release.", etc., that is certainly your right and I will support your ability to do so. Just do not expect to let it go without speaking up myself. Regardless how often you do it.

I do know you are well versed in the game and some of your posts have been extremely helpful to me and others. So I know you can be a great asset to the forum. It is just when you go off like the above, that I find not helpful and determential. So I would much perfer the other Dabrion rather than the latter just as an FYI [:)] 

+1

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: majordefeat


I was a WiF board gamer a long time ago until time and reality kicked in.
I knew of the development of a computer game through updates from a relative.
I didn't involve myself in the email lists or this forum etc because it sounded like a bit of a saga.
I was happy to wait for the end of it.

Since you have asked, it seems one approach to the development of a game like this may have been to build an engine that supported vanilla wif in limited scope, to which you would add over time different expansion packs (in terms of units or maps etc). Or ideally, which can be added to over time by community / open source developers.

The advantage of such an approach would be not just in time to develop, but cashflow through the development process. Essentially, you are asking people to pay for the underlying engine, which is itself playable, and then again for modules, which add to the range of play.

I don't disagree that building wif the game is itself a grand achievement. I think the single player version is really quite excellent. The thing is though, the product is now on the market, it is being sold to people who are now just customers, and not wif fanboys / people who have tracked its trajectory over time.

In response to concerns which are raised now about the full functionality of the product, it may be able to point to the loyal customer base which has followed the development of the product over time, the technical complexity of the product, the pathway / timeline for resolution of bugs.

I'm not sure how far these arguments will fly for people who are new consumers for Wif whether board or computer, who are going to be more interested in getting value for money.

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I would really love to hear in detail, along with a financal analysis, of how you would have created a computer version of WiF which satisified your vision for it. Along with your return on investment numbers for doing it your way Dabrion.

It is the easiest thing in the world to bitch and moan about how this does not work, the developer is a moron for doing things this way, Matrix, should have done X instead of Y, etc. The list is endless. However, I did not (nor have I seen) anyone else willing to take this project on. Have you contacted ADG and asked if YOU can take a shot at creating a computer version using 'modern technology'? I am sure if you were willing to give them a better incentive than Matrix, they would let you try.

Steve and Matrix have done something that many did not think possible. Does it have issues yes. Will they be fixed, I believe so. But until the complainers here are willing to put their own time and own money into doing the same thing like Steve and Matrix have and continue to do so, I personally think everyones time would be better spent tring to help fix what we have versus just saying this is trash and just giving up. But hey, that is just me [:)]

But if you would rather just say "Woe is me, they did not do it the way I wanted waaa waaaa" or "It is not perfect on release.", etc., that is certainly your right and I will support your ability to do so. Just do not expect to let it go without speaking up myself. Regardless how often you do it.

I do know you are well versed in the game and some of your posts have been extremely helpful to me and others. So I know you can be a great asset to the forum. It is just when you go off like the above, that I find not helpful and determential. So I would much perfer the other Dabrion rather than the latter just as an FYI [:)] 

+1

But customers should always get value for money if I may say so. If I had stumbled upon this forum now, instead of a couple of years back, I might have been in the same area as Dabrion is now. Very frustrated for loosing € 150,-- for a game which was promised to be available for Netplay in a few weeks in november...
And that's where the problem is at the moment. Sure, if you look back on how things have been done, people are probably now thinking what they have done and would have done things different with the knowledge that they have now...

Can the bugs be fixed? I think they will be, in time... But that doesn't satisfy any customers at this moment, does it?

And isn't MWIF also meant to expand the number of people who play the game? I think it is. And if you look at this, I hope that people like Otto von Blotto will look into this forum again in about half a year (or a year) to see if progress is made. At the moment, this forum doesn't look like an advertisement for buying MWIF at all...

[bo]

Well said Major, when I joined the beta team and the first item I saw was there would be no AI in the inital offering I was stunned even though reading each months "when" I was almost sure there would be no AI. I have never played netplay with any game, unless you call COD2 and World of tanks netplay, I don't. The best way to play any computer war game IMO is human against human.

Saying that though, I want to play when I want to play, and the AI, a good one, a soso one, or even a poor one affords me that. There will be an AI and I do hope I am allowed to test it. I am an AI person through and through even though many of my past games sit on the never again shelf either do to non-replayable or a poor AI.

When I started asking questions about TCP/IP working with certain computer games I just wanted to see the difference between how workable it is on those games as compared to MWIF and why we are having problems with netplay. Some of the answers I received is that most of those games if not all are U go I go games. Where MWIF is nowheres like that, there is alot of back and forth interaction in amost every phase and impulse. Can it be solved, that is way above my paygrade here to even suggest it one way or another.

Major, I and all the beta testers had visions of a totally completed MWIF being released with the AI, netplay, Solitaire, hot seat and even PBEM in place and ready to go. I had visions of many thousands of computer wargamers lining up to buy this game from every nation on earth, buying IMO the finest computer war game to have ever hit the open market now and long into the future. I was naive about that I will admit that, why release the game when Matrix did is again beyond my pay grade maybe powerful forces were working with this and those forces won out, just dont know.

I cannot answer for other testers but I was devastated when I read the main posts after the release.

My hopes have been dashed about the masses flocking to this game,I have no monetary interest in the game just respect for a brilliant game, even though I know eventually this will all be straightened out. The damage has been done, fatally, I do not know one way or the other.

Facts are facts you cannot hide from them, to the players who have posted how much they are enjoying the MWIF books and the solitaire game I salute you for having the courage to speak out about the game with all the negative criticism [ deserved criticism] flowing around you. A lot of posters have left the forums over this game not being to their liking, I hope in the coming months they will all be back enjoying this brilliant game, and I am sure that Steve, Matrix and the beta testers will do everything possible to make that happen. Hope I am still here testing [:(]

Bo

[Dorb]

Look on the bright side at all the other great games we have to play that have come out from Matrix since then. I can always come back to this down the road. Hell I already have more game to play than I ever will have time to complete.

[smitht2ls]

WiF was the holy grail of gaming for me. Purchased my first copy in Reno Neveda in 89/90.

Have been following MWiF development from the start on this forum. Was very excited to buy MWiF and am enjoying playing the solitare game.

To me the fatal decision was to go with NetPlay at release and not a basic AI. By basic I mean an AI that could execute a historic type strategy for the major powers.

If this is my project my priorities are:
1. Cleanup issues such as supply/oil.
2. Focus on getting a basic AI released in the next month.
3. Get netplay to work for Local LANs

To me netplay is the single hardest option to implement for MWiF and should have been addon module.