Why did 5 British units Surrender?

[sullafelix]

IMHO, I believe that the Allied invasions were only vulnerable for a day or two.

The confusion and tumult of the first days would make it so the Germans would have a chance to drive them into the sea.

The Allies had terrible tanks but once they got a "" bite " into a beachhead you were not going to drive them off. The main reason is that the Allies did have wonderful antitank guns and had them in spades. The German armor would have broken it's teeth against the Allies.

The Allied beachhead attacks really remind me of the " bite and hold " tactics that the Allies developed in 1917. Ponderous and unwieldy they worked fine on the German counter attacks.

On the other hand I do not think if an invasion hex is defeated that the Allied units should just show up somewhere else with a good # of casualties. Any unit driven into the sea even with only 20-30% casualties would be unable to be used for a long time because of morale etc..

I think that there should be a chance of a landing being defeated but to me it has to be a small chance.

[Agathosdaimon]

Cool thread, it made for interesting reading about such snakeeye like events - blundering to glory, sometimes, where a freak event snatches defeat from the jaws of victorx, lucky for axis . So far i havent played as allies but my games as the germans are great fun, to sit back and ponder ones next move, like chess but more my type of fun.
Dont remove the possibilty of mass surrender altogether, it should be rare but still always remotely possible, - one could imagine that something unforeseen and terrible has happened int he allies line, maybe someone made a premature assassination attempt of patton and succeeded or something

[Michael T]

Of a little different topic but related...one thing i feel is needed is Air Recon to select hexes (by player) prior to amphib invasion. Right now the player acts blindly and seems un-realistic prior to invade. once air superiority is made...player should get a few chances to uncover FOG.

Yes?

+1

As for Allied surrender, why not? They were just as vulnerable as any other nation to surrender if enough force is applied.

However I would like to see naval support handled somewhat like airpower is. That way the allies could provide naval support at beach heads in attack and defence. It was naval power that really made it difficult for the Germans to push on to the beach head. IIRC naval gunfire made a German CA at Anzio or maybe Salerno a lost cause.

[FrankHunter]

Once the Allies have air superiority the air points they put on interdiction also recce non-sighted German units. Which isn't to say you will see every German unit, but it does increase your chances, especially those in clear terrain.

[tombo]

another good tip...it was never really clear to me what interdiction did game wise. Now i know to increase that air points vs. combat support for recon.

Can you expand on the meaning to interdiction valve X shown in the Air report. Is it disruption to all enemy units or some, loss of strenght to units, reduced supply???

cheers

[Toby42]

I guess that we are learning the game on the fly. I still give it a "thumbs up"!

[tombo]

+1...we'll get Frank to give up all the good stuff....[:D]

The more we learn, the more u can see the quality built in the game mechanics.

[Michael T]

I just wish all these little tips were documented.

[FrankHunter]

tombo, the value you see next to Interdiction in your air force orders screen is the percentage of enemy movement points reduced by the air points you had on interdiction the previous turn.

So a value of 20 means you've reduced the movement allowance of all German units by 20%


And as mentioned, aircraft on interdiction may also sight enemy units that are not adjacent to the front.

[FrankHunter]

Michael T, currently naval power is abstractly represented by doubling the attack value of Allied units involved in an amphibious invasion.

[FrankHunter]

Actually I think all of this is in the rules but perhaps I need to change to a SPI style case format instead of my meandering type writing where somewhat important things are mentioned as part of a stream of consciousness.

[Michael T]

I know about the attack being doubled. But what about when defending a beach head? I think this might help the 'surrender' problem on the beach head. Why not double defence of allied units on a beachhead due to naval support? But only allow one beach head to receive such help, as selected by the player?

I know it means more code but I think this is an important advantage the allies had in beating off German attacks against them on the beach head. By the same token the naval power available was not unlimited. So only allow one beach head or maybe conected beach heads this naval defensive bonus.

[tombo]

one additional question....can u define what value "enemy superiority XX" means (shown on Air Report)? how do i use that? is that percent of the total full strenght of 10?

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

tombo, the value you see next to Interdiction in your air force orders screen is the percentage of enemy movement points reduced by the air points you had on interdiction the previous turn.

So a value of 20 means you've reduced the movement allowance of all German units by 20%


And as mentioned, aircraft on interdiction may also sight enemy units that are not adjacent to the front.

[FrankHunter]

Michael T, as the release of 1.01 was delayed anyway, I'll make that change to give increases to the defensive power of Allied units defending a beachhead.

tombo, that number is the number of enemy air points that were placed on Air Superiority last turn. As for how do you use that, if you're the Allies you want to maintain enough of an advantage to guarantee you superiority otherwise your other missions will suffer losses from enemy air points assigned to the superiority mission.

[Michael T]

Thanks Frank, a nice improvement [:)]