HMS Hood

[warspite1]

Not sure how many have access to BBCiplayer but here is a program well worth watching if you do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0 ... 4-hms-hood

[mind_messing]

I made a comment to my Allied PBEM opponent that I found it very odd to be trying to do my best to sink ships that had been built only a couple of miles away from where I live. It's suprising just how many of the larger British and Commonwealth combatants were built in Glasgow

http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/b ... index.html

[dr.hal]

I don't live in the UK so I can't see it. But I use to live there! Does that help?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I don't live in the UK so I can't see it. But I use to live there! Does that help?

warspite1

Shame - worth seeing.

[dr.hal]

Tell the BBC that.... sigh.

[jazman]

Get a VPN (something like TunnelBear), connect to the VPN in the UK, then the BBC thinks you're in the UK.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: jazman

Get a VPN (something like TunnelBear), connect to the VPN in the UK, then the BBC thinks you're in the UK.

Your advocating something that is illegal in the UK. Almost, in fact is the same as distributing pirated copies of a computer game. You should be ashamed.

[wdolson]

A lot of BBC programs do end up getting shown in the US eventually. Either BBC America or the History Channel will probably pick it up.

Bill

[jazman]

I suggest you search "Is it illegal to watch BBC video using VPN?" The results aren't a bunch of piratical sites, nor do you have to be on Tor to do it.

For example:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/01 ... s-20120801

Temporary VPN connections can be downloaded online and some providers — including Lamnia VPN, which is based in Northampton, England — are not shy in promoting the connections' use by foreigners to view the BBC.

"Watching UK TV with Lamnia is as easy as 1,2,3," the service proclaims on its home page.

The BBC site states in its online terms of service, however, that viewers outside Britain "may not access, view and/or listen to certain parts of BBC content," including "video or live television services."

But Lamnia director Chris Bedford says the use of VPN to electronically transport a computer to Britain is not clearly forbidden.

"It is a completely gray area," Bedford said. "From our perspective, people are using a U.K. connection."

He said the BBC has not contacted Lamnia to object to its service.

Mitch Stoltz, a staff attorney at the nonprofit Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco, said that it's unclear whether using a VPN connection in the U.S. to watch foreign TV is illegal.

So I head over to Lamnia:

http://www.lamnia.co.uk/

"Watch UK TV Abroad" it proclaims.

The results I find tell me it's unclear (it seems pretty clear to Lamnia, a UK company), whereas you are telling me it's clearly illegal. Do you have a cite to share, or are you just a self-righteous scold?

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: jazman

I suggest you search "Is it illegal to watch BBC video using VPN?" The results aren't a bunch of piratical sites, nor do you have to be on Tor to do it.

For example:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/01 ... s-20120801

Temporary VPN connections can be downloaded online and some providers — including Lamnia VPN, which is based in Northampton, England — are not shy in promoting the connections' use by foreigners to view the BBC.

"Watching UK TV with Lamnia is as easy as 1,2,3," the service proclaims on its home page.

The BBC site states in its online terms of service, however, that viewers outside Britain "may not access, view and/or listen to certain parts of BBC content," including "video or live television services."

But Lamnia director Chris Bedford says the use of VPN to electronically transport a computer to Britain is not clearly forbidden.

"It is a completely gray area," Bedford said. "From our perspective, people are using a U.K. connection."

He said the BBC has not contacted Lamnia to object to its service.

Mitch Stoltz, a staff attorney at the nonprofit Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco, said that it's unclear whether using a VPN connection in the U.S. to watch foreign TV is illegal.

So I head over to Lamnia:

http://www.lamnia.co.uk/

"Watch UK TV Abroad" it proclaims.

The results I find tell me it's unclear (it seems pretty clear to Lamnia, a UK company), whereas you are telling me it's clearly illegal. Do you have a cite to share, or are you just a self-righteous scold?

To my knowledge there is no law in the UK that prevents companies like this setting up. The problem is to watch UK TV you need TV license. If you use this company to view UK TV you are breaking UK law if you do not have this license. Anyway if there wasn't a problem why do Lamnia hid your IP address, using one of their secure servers instead.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: jazman

I suggest you search "Is it illegal to watch BBC video using VPN?" The results aren't a bunch of piratical sites, nor do you have to be on Tor to do it.

For example:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/01 ... s-20120801

Temporary VPN connections can be downloaded online and some providers — including Lamnia VPN, which is based in Northampton, England — are not shy in promoting the connections' use by foreigners to view the BBC.

"Watching UK TV with Lamnia is as easy as 1,2,3," the service proclaims on its home page.

The BBC site states in its online terms of service, however, that viewers outside Britain "may not access, view and/or listen to certain parts of BBC content," including "video or live television services."

But Lamnia director Chris Bedford says the use of VPN to electronically transport a computer to Britain is not clearly forbidden.

"It is a completely gray area," Bedford said. "From our perspective, people are using a U.K. connection."

He said the BBC has not contacted Lamnia to object to its service.

Mitch Stoltz, a staff attorney at the nonprofit Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco, said that it's unclear whether using a VPN connection in the U.S. to watch foreign TV is illegal.

So I head over to Lamnia:

http://www.lamnia.co.uk/

"Watch UK TV Abroad" it proclaims.

The results I find tell me it's unclear (it seems pretty clear to Lamnia, a UK company), whereas you are telling me it's clearly illegal. Do you have a cite to share, or are you just a self-righteous scold?

To my knowledge there is no law in the UK that prevents companies like this setting up. The problem is to watch UK TV you need TV license. If you use this company to view UK TV you are breaking UK law if you do not have this license. Anyway if there wasn't a problem why do Lamnia hid your IP address, using one of their secure servers instead.

Because BBC filters by IP address. I don't watch UK TV (except the BBC channel(s) on my DirecTV system), but I just want to point out that what a company or even government entity chooses to do is not the arbiter of legal/illegal or right/wrong. Many US companies have proclaimed that customers are 'breaking the law' when they most clearly are not.

[jazman]

ORIGINAL: Chris H
To my knowledge there is no law in the UK that prevents companies like this setting up. The problem is to watch UK TV you need TV license. If you use this company to view UK TV you are breaking UK law if you do not have this license. Anyway if there wasn't a problem why do Lamnia hid your IP address, using one of their secure servers instead.

Translation: "I don't really know that it's illegal." Apparently Lamnia, a company in the UK, thinks it's OK, and even promotes business with them on this angle. So, who do I trust? My lying eyes, or Chris H., the UK IP lawyer?

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

To my knowledge there is no law in the UK that prevents companies like this setting up. The problem is to watch UK TV you need TV license. If you use this company to view UK TV you are breaking UK law if you do not have this license. Anyway if there wasn't a problem why do Lamnia hid your IP address, using one of their secure servers instead.

According to tvlicensing.co.uk, if you watch online at the same time a show is being broadcast live, you need a license. However, if you watch a show online after it has aired, you don't need a license. So it sounds like using a VPN to watch UK programming without a license is completely legal as long as you aren't watching live TV.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ103

I have a friend in the UK who has rallied against the licensing for years. I don't think he ever owned a TV. Before streaming he did all his TV viewing either through renting tapes/DVDs or going over to a friend's house. I think today he watches most of his TV streaming online.

Bill

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: Chris H

To my knowledge there is no law in the UK that prevents companies like this setting up. The problem is to watch UK TV you need TV license. If you use this company to view UK TV you are breaking UK law if you do not have this license. Anyway if there wasn't a problem why do Lamnia hid your IP address, using one of their secure servers instead.

According to tvlicensing.co.uk, if you watch online at the same time a show is being broadcast live, you need a license. However, if you watch a show online after it has aired, you don't need a license. So it sounds like using a VPN to watch UK programming without a license is completely legal as long as you aren't watching live TV.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ103

I have a friend in the UK who has rallied against the licensing for years. I don't think he ever owned a TV. Before streaming he did all his TV viewing either through renting tapes/DVDs or going over to a friend's house. I think today he watches most of his TV streaming online.

Bill

This is currently the case but I was referring to live TV or programs viewed using iplayers. The question still remains though, 'why would this company need to change your IP to a secure IP?' and also is it ethical?

For those who do not know the BBC is state funded (not controlled, but other may disagree) through the TV license fee which is why the BBC can make programs without adverts. I don't expect anyone not brought up on advert free TV to appreciate this absence of Ads, for one thing an hour program is an hour not 45-50 mins (or shorter in a lot of cases).

With the advent of TV streaming the BBC is losing a considerable amount of money, money that is needed by the BBC to enable it to continue making documentaries like the one in this thread.

In the music industry it is illegal to download music without payment of royalties. In the computer industry it is illegal to copy games except to back up it for your own use. In all of these the equipment to do it is not illegal but the act of doing so is.

[witpqs]

This is currently the case but I was referring to live TV or programs viewed using iplayers. The question still remains though, 'why would this company need to change your IP to a secure IP?' and also is it ethical?

I tried to explain this above, I'll expand a bit. It looks like BBC's web site filters on IP address, even when the user is trying to look at non-live broadcasts. Based on the explanations in various posts above, they can restrict live viewing to license holders. But what they have done instead, is to restrict all viewing to those with UK IP addresses. In the bullet points below "in the UK" means having a UK IP address, and so on. I am using the terms 'live view versus 'old view' for clarity.

Non-license holders in the UK can live view. BAD

License holders within the UK can live view. GOOD

License holders who are traveling or otherwise outside the UK (but within the terms of their license, which I am not familiar with), can not live view. BAD

Non-license holders outside the UK can not live view. GOOD

Non-license holders in the UK can old view. GOOD

License holders within the UK can old view. GOOD

License holders who are traveling or otherwise outside the UK (but within the terms of their license, which I am not familiar with), can not old view. BAD

Non-license holders outside the UK can not old view. BAD

So they have set up a situation where they are not enforcing the license, they are just discriminating based on location.

Is changing an IP address ethical? It is only a tool. Using a screwdriver to open a window for a burglary is one thing, using a screwdriver to open your own window because a contractor locked you out of your house is different. Changing IP address to get through some of the 'BAD' conditions above is perfectly fine, IMO.

If the laws are changed so that only people present in the UK are allowed to access the BBC site at all, that might be a different story.

[Spidery]

The copyright holder for the material available through iPlayer is, generally, not the BBC. The BBC negotiates a rights agreement with the copyright holders that permits lending (via streaming) or copying (via download) of the copyrighted material to persons present in the UK.

For a person not present in the UK to copy/borrow the material will often be a breach of copyright.

The iPlayer site could try to restrict illicit copying by asking a user to confirm that they are present in the UK or otherwise have a right to access the material. However, there is a certain lack of trust that users would respond truthfully. Therefore, the broad brush approach of blocking certain IP addresses has been taken.

The company I used to work with had a European wide intranet that had a gateway to the internet in Germany. Consequentially, access to the internet appeared to come from a German address and would have been blocked, even though I was located in the UK and entitled to access iPlayer.

[Symon]

Quickly FYI. I'm a retired US Intellectual Property Attorney. A partner in a couple of IP firms. I use VPNs and download from China whenever I can. Why? because I just might want to, and because I can. So, you people should take your little progressive/socialist nonsense to some little political forum somewhere else.

It doesn't belong here.

[warspite1]

....anyway, let's get this thread back onto its beautiful topic

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Chris H
This is currently the case but I was referring to live TV or programs viewed using iplayers. The question still remains though, 'why would this company need to change your IP to a secure IP?' and also is it ethical?

For those who do not know the BBC is state funded (not controlled, but other may disagree) through the TV license fee which is why the BBC can make programs without adverts. I don't expect anyone not brought up on advert free TV to appreciate this absence of Ads, for one thing an hour program is an hour not 45-50 mins (or shorter in a lot of cases).

With the advent of TV streaming the BBC is losing a considerable amount of money, money that is needed by the BBC to enable it to continue making documentaries like the one in this thread.

In the music industry it is illegal to download music without payment of royalties. In the computer industry it is illegal to copy games except to back up it for your own use. In all of these the equipment to do it is not illegal but the act of doing so is.

I am familiar with the BBC situation and what's going on. I've read several articles about it as well as discussed it with some friends in the UK.

However, there was a request to drop this debate and I think that's wise. It has nothing to do with the game or really the history around the game.

In a nutshell there was a program on the BBC about the ship builder that built the Hood. One of these days it might become available in the US if the History Channel or BBC America pick it up. It looks interesting and I'll try to catch it if it does air here.

Bill

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: Chris H
This is currently the case but I was referring to live TV or programs viewed using iplayers. The question still remains though, 'why would this company need to change your IP to a secure IP?' and also is it ethical?

For those who do not know the BBC is state funded (not controlled, but other may disagree) through the TV license fee which is why the BBC can make programs without adverts. I don't expect anyone not brought up on advert free TV to appreciate this absence of Ads, for one thing an hour program is an hour not 45-50 mins (or shorter in a lot of cases).

With the advent of TV streaming the BBC is losing a considerable amount of money, money that is needed by the BBC to enable it to continue making documentaries like the one in this thread.

In the music industry it is illegal to download music without payment of royalties. In the computer industry it is illegal to copy games except to back up it for your own use. In all of these the equipment to do it is not illegal but the act of doing so is.

I am familiar with the BBC situation and what's going on. I've read several articles about it as well as discussed it with some friends in the UK.

However, there was a request to drop this debate and I think that's wise. It has nothing to do with the game or really the history around the game.

In a nutshell there was a program on the BBC about the ship builder that built the Hood. One of these days it might become available in the US if the History Channel or BBC America pick it up. It looks interesting and I'll try to catch it if it does air here.

Bill

OK