First Pentomic Scenario

[WABAC]

OK.

This version (.90) does not have any extra artwork since the scenario will hold what you need.

The mortar in the BG recon platoon has been modified into a long range rocket-propelled grenade.

This is a large scenario featuring two reinforced Soviet motor rifle regiments, the division recon battalion, and a battalion of corps artillery up against two troops of the 2/14th ACR and 1/30th BG 3rd ID. The action takes place in a snow storm, so you will be slugging it out up close.

I have done some nipping and tucking here and there in the Soviet OOB/TOE to make sure that this game can be played through without crashing. I seem to have hit the sweet spot now. Computer vs computer has played through while I browsed the internet with firefox and looked at some large art files with GIMP -- Yes I am already thinking about the next scenario.

Please post all of your comments here.

Updated versions will be edited to this first link.

US ratings have been increased for DePuy's troops, and the Cav, Arty, and Engineer units.

The map is too large as a png so has been loaded as a jpeg. You can find the map as a .png at http://www.ontargetsimulations.com/?page_id=154 if you do not want to mess around with converting. It is labeled Depuy19620105 and roughly covers the area Bad Neustadt - Fladungen - Meiningen.

[Tazak]

Does this use its own map?

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: Tazak

Does this use its own map?

I need a Homer Simpson avatar.

Doh.

You might have a link to the map in your sticky thread. Otherwise I will try to zip them together before work

[WABAC]

OK. I have zipped in the map data, and the map graphic as a jpg that will have to be converted back to .png due to its size.

I also grabbed any and all of the new silhouettes created since original release. So some of them will already be in your common data folder if you have been updating right along.

The current US setup should not be taken as recommended. I did it that way to see how long it would take the recon to get to various places.

There are three scout squads that will be "fixed" if they are not already. Those are the two at the named outposts, and the one up by Fladungen that was used for many years, but did not have a name in 1962.

This site http://www.14cav.org/a2h.html was very helpful in the creation of this scenario.

For the purposes of this scenario the 3rd Squadron 2/14th has been detached to the ACR to its right.

[cbelva]

Remember you can now load your scenarios and map files onto the OTS website http://www.ontargetsimulations.com/?page_id=163
 
 

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: cbelva

Remember you can now load your scenarios and map files onto the OTS website http://www.ontargetsimulations.com/?page_id=163

Map is up the OTS site now. Will add the scenario after it is finished.

Thanks for the reminder. [:)]

[Tazak]

About 3 hours into the scenario and looking fun so far, a few comments though:

a. rename the .bmp images if you have edited the originals - some people may not notice and overwrite

b. RC/F/1/30 BG 3rd ID - has 1SPMTR - might just be me (and I'm not doubting your OOB) but having a recce unit subject to counter battery fire as well as shoot/scoot at the most inopportune moment may increase frustration levels [;)]

c. I'm seeing a strange white mark on top of image for M52A1 & M44 - I'll post a screenie if you want

d. The soviet engineer infantry seem to have chemical weapons - CHN with a range of 30km

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: Tazak

About 3 hours into the scenario and looking fun so far, a few comments though:

a. rename the .bmp images if you have edited the originals - some people may not notice and overwrite

b. RC/F/1/30 BG 3rd ID - has 1SPMTR - might just be me (and I'm not doubting your OOB) but having a recce unit subject to counter battery fire as well as shoot/scoot at the most inopportune moment may increase frustration levels [;)]

c. I'm seeing a strange white mark on top of image for M52A1 & M44 - I'll post a screenie if you want

d. The soviet engineer infantry seem to have chemical weapons - CHN with a range of 30km

a. Haven't edited any originals. I think I redid some because I didn't think the original matched well. So I will take a look at that and give them different names like WABAC'S_M60_1960.

b. Now you know why I was interested in the 51mm mortar (pronounced 2 inch) at the platoon HQ. [:)]

US recon platoons/troops at that time were made up of a scout section of jeeps, 2 or 3 tanks, a "dragoon" squad in some Field Manuals, and a SP mortar at 81mm or 107mm. the latter is pronounced 4.2" in my state. [;)]

IIRC US WWII armored cavalry formations featured 60mm mortars scattered into the jeep sections. I don't think the idea died out until the Bradley cavalry units were organized. I believe part of the idea was to show a little bit of everything to the other side if need be.

The battle group's organic cavalry troop doesn't allow for a sensible breakout of the mortar into a section like I have created for the ACR squadrons under my "tactical toe." But the Cavalry FM's make it clear that while it is usual to break them out, it's more of a guideline than an actual rule.

My battle group troop also features the M41 Bulldog. Every other flavor of cavalry in Europe seems to have upgraded to medium tanks as soon as they possibly could.

So the 1/30 battle group's troop is the TOE version. The 2/14th(-) is organized according to the guidelines.

c. I am seeing the same issue. Something broke down between me and GIMP on some of the art work.

d. Oh dear. That's not right. [X(]. You think you have your ducks in a row, and then you try to get them on the pond.

Nice to get feedback. And great to chat about this stuff. Thank you [:)]

[Tazak]

I also found the 'infantry & transport' situation you were talking about when the 3 mech companies enter, when CD has some free time (but not too soon [&o] with all the 2.06 work) and can advise on the transport figures you should be able to update that aspect. I'm assuming you tried combining the 4 support 'teams' into a single support section - did that work around the transport limits

That 3.1" mortar (see what I did there[;)]) is a tease though;
if this were mine I'd err down the side of gameplay trumping historical accuracy and drop the mortar (what effect is 1x 81mm mortar going to have on a/ 500m hex, b/ the battle outcome, plus the CB fire and shoot/scoot aspects), or breakout of the mortar into its own section.

And loving the map, can see a lot of time and love went into it.

Just had a thought (now I'm wornout and going home!), have you tweaked the National tab attributes in terms of arty prep and reaction times, I know the US had a far superior fire control system in WW2 and doubtless that has carried forward but were the reaction times slightly slower in the 1960's than what they are presently. I think the soviets fire control may have been slower back then too.

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: Tazak

that 3.1" mortar (see what I did there[;)]) is a tease though;
if this were mine I'd err down the side of gameplay trumping historical accuracy and drop the mortar (what effect is 1x 81mm mortar going to have on a/ 500m hex, b/ the battle outcome, plus the CB fire and shoot/scoot aspects), or breakout of the mortar into its own section.

And loving the map, can see a lot of time and love went into it.

Just had a thought (now I'm wornout and going home!), have you tweaked the National tab attributes in terms of arty prep and reaction times, I know the US had a far superior fire control system in WW2 and doubtless that has carried forward but were the reaction times slightly slower in the 1960's than what they are presently. I think the soviets fire control may have been slower back then too.

Shucks. I thought y'all pronounced it Stokes.[;)]

I did tweak the national characteristics some, keeping in mind the prevalence of tubes (valves) and wire for everything. Not sure I changed artillery as much as I did jamming and command radius.

The recce platoon doesn't have much firepower. I might create a separate mortar and give it the SW tag. I did that for the L9 when I stuck it back into the platoon HQ. Maybe it will keep it more focused on the task visibly at hand and out of the control of the computer artillery commander. Given the range of the L9 it was kind of hard to tell. But if that doesn't work it will have to go or be replaced by some sort of kludge in the platoon.

Here are my map links:
http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/maps/index.html
http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islan ... po%3A32223
http://www.landkartenarchiv.de/index.php

I do enjoy making them even if they look old-fashioned hexy. It occupies a different part of the brain.

[WABAC]

A new version is up and can be found in the first post anlong with a verbose description.

It is now quite a large scenario. And most of the problems described by Tazak have been dealt with - except for the patchy art work on some of the units.

It plays through computer vs computer without crashing on my computer. I have not actually had a chance to play it yet myself.

[WABAC]

Anyone played this? Anyone wondering where the Soviet artillery is? Seems like they don't do much shooting at all until they drive to just west of the mid-line of the map.

[CapnDarwin]

Arty should do better in 2.06 with all the changes. You will need to adjust the arty values in the national tab based on the numbers for the 2.06 data files to help things out.

[WABAC]

Hi Cap. I am using 2.06. I have adjusted Soviet national values so that they are only a point off US values.

I am still wondering if the MG's in the TOE are encouraging the artillery to move further forward than they might normally. I will try putting the MG's on the towing vehicles. And then I will try striking them altogether.

But it does seem to me that the 152mm guns have little reason to move from where they enter the map since they can cover all of it.

I'ld post a save but I am still running computer on computer to see if my minor changes make a difference.

[CapnDarwin]

Arty and HQ units will still move to stay in command range support of the line units. Another factor is spotted targets. Arty will fire from long ranges if you have units that are spotting the enemy in good numbers. In my current plays of A Time to Dance I am getting hammered by AI arty all the time.

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Arty and HQ units will still move to stay in command range support of the line units. Another factor is spotted targets. Arty will fire from long ranges if you have units that are spotting the enemy in good numbers. In my current plays of A Time to Dance I am getting hammered by AI arty all the time.

I am using the 9/22 build. And running computer versus computer to see how the changes are working in a quick way. If I understand the mechanics of refreshing data Soviet artillery characteristics should now be:

Delay: Pre-Planned Fire 4
Delay: On Call Fire 7
Delay: Between Fire Missions 8
% CB Detection 39
Max FSCC Age - Static Target 21
Max FSCC Age - Moving Target 11
FSCC - Min Tubes per Mission 4

Visibility in the game is 500 meters due to the weather conditions. What I see often is Blue firing away at units well away from any spotters. And it is not unusual for Blue to knock out a platoon of 5 T55's with one firing mission. Red mostly fires with the rockets. Then maybe the 160 mortars, 152's 122's. And mostly only after the firing units have crossed the longitudinal middle of the map.

Mortars are currently under control of the recce battalion and the two regiments. The recce battalion will lose its mortar battery because he tends to use it in mine clearing operations.

As a human vs AI game it plays out differently than what I expected. The limited visibility and primitive tech creates an interesting environment. And it doesn't have to turn into the sort of hex jumble I was expecting. I think it would make an interesting head to head match.

To be a good human vs AI contest Red really needs his artillery working as well as Blue's.

[CapnDarwin]

Once I get the 2.06 docs done I will try out the scenario and see if there is some sort of bias or bug hitting red arty.

[WABAC]

Looking at it this morning I noticed that Blue also shoots at a lot of empty hexes. He likes to keep the tubes smoking.

I was hoping for another test after revising the TOES/OOB but got distracted updating the Red briefing and looking for decent Soviet artwork for head-to-head play.

[CapnDarwin]

Targets can move and if there is no spotter to shift HE fires they are going to land empty. It is also possible they are shooting at electronic targets (radio/radar) too. In that case there is no visible enemy unless a unit can see it.

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Targets can move and if there is no spotter to shift HE fires they are going to land empty. It is also possible they are shooting at electronic targets (radio/radar) too. In that case there is no visible enemy unless a unit can see it.

The Soviets are blasting away now from the moment they enter the map.

I had originally started with MMG's per the TOE's in the aggressor manuals. Then I switched them to AAMMG's on a hunch. Now I have deleted the AAMMG's from the TOE, and all of the towing vehicles have an AAMMG.

I hope to have a revised version up on Saturday with a new Soviet artillery organization. Improved scenario description and briefing. And I have some new artwork for the Soviet msg.bmp. I am still looking for something good for the 39th MRD.

This is the guy that will be asking if you really, really want to do something. I think he might be the political officer. [:)]