Submarine effectiveness

[Mr.Frag]

Which part of reality would you like to simulate as there are many parts?

Do you want a complete weather database that exactly duplicates the historic weather day by day?

Do you want to duplicate each and every radio dispatch and have decoding staff working around the clock to deliver intepretations?

Do you want to simulate the exact mechanical process used to create the steel used to build the ships/planes/etc that we use and make sure that you duplicate any structural flaws due to welder Bob coming to work after having a fight with his wife about his kid's allowance money and putting a bad seam on boiler number three that in turn causes the boiler to explode at exactly the wrong time when the ship happens to need emergency power to turn into the torpedo so it misses?

If you want reality, go read the history books, as that is the ONLY reality available. Simulations on the other hand offer one the ability to play around with some VERY LIMITED aspects of history to have some fun. No matter how much effort is put into writing a simulator, it is NOT reality in any way shape or form. It is a SIMULATOR of what COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN. Not a recreation of what DID happen.

Your post stating you sunk USA CV's in scenario 16 means nothing, as in REALITY, it didn't happen. You complain that you can't recreate one specific event but you are perfectly ok with having this happen? Wheres the logic?

Reality would consist of us watching UV as the computer played turn after turn by itself, with completely predetermined outcome based on what historically happened. Not really much fun to sit at your computer and simply hit next 500+ times to watch the pre-determined results go by.

[Chiteng]

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
Which part of reality would you like to simulate as there are many parts?

Do you want a complete weather database that exactly duplicates the historic weather day by day?

Do you want to duplicate each and every radio dispatch and have decoding staff working around the clock to deliver intepretations?

Do you want to simulate the exact mechanical process used to create the steel used to build the ships/planes/etc that we use and make sure that you duplicate any structural flaws due to welder Bob coming to work after having a fight with his wife about his kid's allowance money and putting a bad seam on boiler number three that in turn causes the boiler to explode at exactly the wrong time when the ship happens to need emergency power to turn into the torpedo so it misses?

If you want reality, go read the history books, as that is the ONLY reality available. Simulations on the other hand offer one the ability to play around with some VERY LIMITED aspects of history to have some fun. No matter how much effort is put into writing a simulator, it is NOT reality in any way shape or form. It is a SIMULATOR of what COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN. Not a recreation of what DID happen.

Your post stating you sunk USA CV's in scenario 16 means nothing, as in REALITY, it didn't happen. You complain that you can't recreate one specific event but you are perfectly ok with having this happen? Wheres the logic?

Reality would consist of us watching UV as the computer played turn after turn by itself, with completely predetermined outcome based on what historically happened. Not really much fun to sit at your computer and simply hit next 500+ times to watch the pre-determined results go by.

Reality is that Savo Island and Tassaforonga happened.
THAT is reality.

[Mr.Frag]

Reality is that Savo Island and Tassaforonga happened.

Reality is that Japan lost the war! Your point is somewhat pointless.

[Chiteng]

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
Reality is that Japan lost the war! Your point is somewhat pointless.

No it isnt. If the game doesnt at least try to addess
reality, it becomes an enhanced 'Risk'

A game in the guise of a simulation.

Everything that happened at Savo Island not only CAN
be simulated, but it HAS been simulated, in other games.

[SoulBlazer]

Savo Island CAN happen. It's easier to get agansit the AI because most human players are not that stupid.

[demonterico]

In my opinion, one of the most difficult things to simulate in a wargame is stupidity. Why would anyone want to do the same dumb things that occurred historically? Also our games eliminate the chain of command, thereby eliminating much of the possibilty for misunderstanding, misinterpitation, mischance, mismymommy, ect, ect. If there hasn't been a Savo Is. in your game then the right circumstances have not developed for it to happen. Suprise night combats can happen in UV.

UV is a game. If you want reality you have to use real bullets.

[Chiteng]

Originally posted by demonterico
In my opinion, one of the most difficult things to simulate in a wargame is stupidity. Why would anyone want to do the same dumb things that occurred historically? Also our games eliminate the chain of command, thereby eliminating much of the possibilty for misunderstanding, misinterpitation, mischance, mismymommy, ect, ect. If there hasn't been a Savo Is. in your game then the right circumstances have not developed for it to happen. Suprise night combats can happen in UV.

UV is a game. If you want reality you have to use real bullets.

It can be more than Enhanced World In Flames however

[Yamamoto]

Didn't this thread have something to do with submarines ?

Yamamoto

[Admiral DadMan]

The Original Poster used the word "mine" at the end of his post, and that was it, apparently everything was game

[Micah Goodman]

I am playing the game with the latest patch against a Japanese computer player. Granted this is my first full game but those darn subs are kicking my A**. I have lost one damaged carrier, four damaged CA’s two healthy ones and three of four DD’s. The Japanese park their subs in what I have begun to call torpedo ally five to eight hex squares North West of Nomua. I sent a bombardment group of about eight CA’s and several DD’s to jump a supply task force at Guadalcanal. I came out with a slight advantage over the Japanese, (he lost a CA two DD’s and several others damaged to my loss of a single DD and several other CA’s and DD’s damaged) but on the trip back those Japanese subs slaughtered me. Two more CA’s lost two damaged and sent back to Pearl Harbor. So I sent out three SC groups of three each and another slaughter took place. 6 SC’s lost to one damaged Japanese sub. After sending two groups of four DD’s to find them they left, or I just missed them.

One mistake I know I made was failing to send some DD escorts from Nomua to follow the cripples home. But holy cow I had visions of fanatical Japanese officers surfacing and sink my ships with Samurai swords! As I get better and refine my tactics hopefully my losses will decrease but at this rate the Japanese can retire their Aircraft Carriers and just send subs south. So far my only attempt to lay mines (USS Argonaut) ended with her loss to A Japanese DD south of Rabual.

[Chiteng]

Originally posted by Micah Goodman
I am playing the game with the latest patch against a Japanese computer player. Granted this is my first full game but those darn subs are kicking my A**. I have lost one damaged carrier, four damaged CA’s two healthy ones and three of four DD’s. The Japanese park their subs in what I have begun to call torpedo ally five to eight hex squares North West of Nomua. I sent a bombardment group of about eight CA’s and several DD’s to jump a supply task force at Guadalcanal. I came out with a slight advantage over the Japanese, (he lost a CA two DD’s and several others damaged to my loss of a single DD and several other CA’s and DD’s damaged) but on the trip back those Japanese subs slaughtered me. Two more CA’s lost two damaged and sent back to Pearl Harbor. So I sent out three SC groups of three each and another slaughter took place. 6 SC’s lost to one damaged Japanese sub. After sending two groups of four DD’s to find them they left, or I just missed them.

One mistake I know I made was failing to send some DD escorts from Nomua to follow the cripples home. But holy cow I had visions of fanatical Japanese officers surfacing and sink my ships with Samurai swords! As I get better and refine my tactics hopefully my losses will decrease but at this rate the Japanese can retire their Aircraft Carriers and just send subs south. So far my only attempt to lay mines (USS Argonaut) ended with her loss to A Japanese DD south of Rabual.

You must use your planes to spot subs.
lots and lots of planes.

[demonterico]

I wish my subs were doing so well.