Some air questions.

[JocMeister]

What exactly effects the morale of an air group? I havn´t found anything in the manual about this under section 8.

I assumed fatigue and losses would be closely tied with morale but some groups seems to plummet morale from a turn to another for no apparent reason? No heavy losses and FAT in single digits. Despite that some groups seem to dive from 60-80 in MRL down to 20-30 over a single turn. Not sure if its a coincidence but non US squadrons seems to be a bit more prone to this then others.

9th AFs level bombers are also taking a tremendous morale hit flying interdiction/rail attack over Normandie. I can usually only fly them for a single turn. After that I have to let the rest for 1-2 weeks. Losses arn´t very big. What is causing this? 8th AF is doing the same thing but isn´t suffering any noticeable morale drop.

My losses among 2nd RAF seem to be really high. Especially Typhoons suffer a great deal of losses despite doing rail attacks behind enemy lines and no enemy AA fire. Anything I can do to lessen the losses. I do fly 7 days of the week and often use high intensity. I dropped it down a bit and losses dropped with less sorties of course. But compared to other planes they do seem to suffer very high losses. P47s doing the same mission doesn´t seem to suffer nearly as much.

[Helpless]

I think flights needs to be attacked by AA or by other aircraft to have morale losses. There could be no losses, just damage.

From your description I suspect that AA fire contributes the most.

[Smirfy]

The Allied air losses to flak are nothing short of rediculous, the Typhoon's in particulair suffer horrendous casualties despite being rocket armed. There is an excellent official papar detailing how the 8th airforce fighters minimised their losses to flak over Europe when they started to suffer losses. The very first thing they did was ask the RAF how they did it. it was then explained the requisite level of staff worked required and the USAAF adopted RAFmethods and seen losse plummet.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

I think flights needs to be attacked by AA or by other aircraft to have morale losses. There could be no losses, just damage.

From your description I suspect that AA fire contributes the most.

So the only thing effecting morale is AA fire and enemy fighter intercepts?

ORIGINAL: Smirfy
The Allied air losses to flak are nothing short of rediculous, the Typhoon's in particulair suffer horrendous casualties despite being rocket armed. There is an excellent official papar detailing how the 8th airforce fighters minimised their losses to flak over Europe when they started to suffer losses. The very first thing they did was ask the RAF how they did it. it was then explained the requisite level of staff worked required and the USAAF adopted RAFmethods and seen losse plummet.

Thanks for the history lesson. But I was more interested how to reduce losses in the game. [:)]

[Helpless]

So the only thing effecting morale is AA fire and enemy fighter intercepts?

Mostly yes. Forgot to mention morale loss when hit on the ground.

[RedLancer]

Don't the arrival of new pilots with lower morale also have an impact?

[Helpless]

Don't the arrival of new pilots with lower morale also have an impact?

Pilots have no morale

[Smirfy]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Helpless

I think flights needs to be attacked by AA or by other aircraft to have morale losses. There could be no losses, just damage.

From your description I suspect that AA fire contributes the most.

So the only thing effecting morale is AA fire and enemy fighter intercepts?

ORIGINAL: Smirfy
The Allied air losses to flak are nothing short of rediculous, the Typhoon's in particulair suffer horrendous casualties despite being rocket armed. There is an excellent official papar detailing how the 8th airforce fighters minimised their losses to flak over Europe when they started to suffer losses. The very first thing they did was ask the RAF how they did it. it was then explained the requisite level of staff worked required and the USAAF adopted RAFmethods and seen losse plummet.

Thanks for the history lesson. But I was more interested how to reduce losses in the game. [:)]

A patch to the code would be the way to reduce losses in game, I think my last game was 5300 pilots Kia in the Italian Campaign. After the luftwaffe ceased to exist after a month. Kamakazes had a better chance of survival

[KWG]

"I think my last game was 5300 pilots Kia in the Italian Campaign. After the luftwaffe ceased to exist after a month."

what was the cause of their demise? were they showing as losses with no air combat listed on map?

Due to AA?

are they mostly operational losses? do you fly in the worst weather?

[KWG]

were Typhoons more vulnerable to AA than P47. Just looking at a Typhoon makes me think there is some important "stuff" up front that even with a little damage could set the aircraft on the ground.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

So the only thing effecting morale is AA fire and enemy fighter intercepts?

Mostly yes. Forgot to mention morale loss when hit on the ground.

Thanks, I´ll keep en eye on possible flak damage! Didn´t consider damage alone could lower MRL.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: KWG

were Typhoons more vulnerable to AA than P47. Just looking at a Typhoon makes me think there is some important "stuff" up front that even with a little damage could set the aircraft on the ground.

Oddly enough the Typhoons have a better armor rating then the P47! I guess I probably used the Typhoons more aggressively then I thought. Losses DO seem pretty high though. Up to date I´ve lost just over 1000 Typhoons. Production is only 14 per week. [X(]

[KWG]

just checked . Typhoons have higher armor rating but less durability than P47.

when flying low every unit near you will throw something at you. i believe the lower your experience the easier your moral can drop.

[HMSWarspite]

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

A patch to the code would be the way to reduce losses in game, I think my last game was 5300 pilots Kia in the Italian Campaign. After the luftwaffe ceased to exist after a month. Kamakazes had a better chance of survival

Smirfy, you are beginning to risk me developing a minor irritation about your constant unsubstantiated sniping. How many Aircrew lost their lives in Italy in RL? I don't actually know, do you? So, is 5300 realistic?
I do know that the RAF lost c70,000 aircrew on ops during the war, mostly BC.
The real life data needs to be corrected to 'in game'. The game counts pilots only, whereas RL aircraft have between 1 and 11 crew (if you count US). So counting aircraft is better. The US lost c43000 aircraft overseas. And then, of course there is the question of how you are using them? Lots of airfield and other flak traps? Or Interdiction? How does this compare to RL?

So, would you like to research and tell us what the losses should be, I am all for increased accuracy in losses...

[Jakerson]

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite
Smirfy, you are beginning to risk me developing a minor irritation about your constant unsubstantiated sniping. How many Aircrew lost their lives in Italy in RL? I don't actually know, do you? So, is 5300 realistic?
I do know that the RAF lost c70,000 aircrew on ops during the war, mostly BC.
The real life data needs to be corrected to 'in game'. The game counts pilots only, whereas RL aircraft have between 1 and 11 crew (if you count US). So counting aircraft is better. The US lost c43000 aircraft overseas. And then, of course there is the question of how you are using them? Lots of airfield and other flak traps? Or Interdiction? How does this compare to RL?

So, would you like to research and tell us what the losses should be, I am all for increased accuracy in losses...

I have feeling that some people don’t have idea about scale of WW2 fighting if they have problem of losing 5300 pilots when in real life allied lost hundreds of thousand airmen at Europe during ww2.

According to Wikipedia strategic bomber groups 8th, 15th and RAF Bomber command lost total 160 000 airmen just in Europe and these losses don’t include tactical bomber group losses.

USA lost 79 265 airmen at Europe
Britain lost 97,281 airmen at Europe

Of course these numbers have also lost crew included not just pilots. I have seen about similar figures in other sources too.

[Jakerson]

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite
Lots of airfield and other flak traps? Or Interdiction? How does this compare to RL?

So, would you like to research and tell us what the losses should be, I am all for increased accuracy in losses...

Bombing units and airfields tend to be flak traps for tactical bombers especially those airfields that are inside towns that have a lot of heavy flak. Doing just interdiction tend to reduce flak losses.

[ratprince]

HMSwarspite, I have to totally agree with you. Seems like every time I pop on here for some fun answers or questions, there is a subset of a few that generally just apparently hate life in general and WANT to be angry all the time. It is irritating, bothersome and makes for an unpleasant forum read....

My mother always said, "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all" I think that should be a forum rule...

Asking questions and complaining are certainly allowed to help make the game better, but there are ways to do it... Let me help

Angry person way: " Grumble grumble...this is horrible. My history book says this. You people suck. This game sucks. My life sucks. Make me happy"

Nice person way: "I think the air losses might be a tad high based on several test games Ive played. Is anyone else having this? Is it WAD or do I just suck?"

Maybe we should start a thread on how to be a pleasant human being.... [;)]

[RedLancer]

Mike

If you do start such a thread please don't make it too personal.

(Your Mother reminds me of my geography master Mr Cartwright who used to say 'If you keep your mouth shut people can only think you're stupid - when you open it they know.')

[Smirfy]

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

A patch to the code would be the way to reduce losses in game, I think my last game was 5300 pilots Kia in the Italian Campaign. After the luftwaffe ceased to exist after a month. Kamakazes had a better chance of survival

Smirfy, you are beginning to risk me developing a minor irritation about your constant unsubstantiated sniping. How many Aircrew lost their lives in Italy in RL? I don't actually know, do you? So, is 5300 realistic?
I do know that the RAF lost c70,000 aircrew on ops during the war, mostly BC.
The real life data needs to be corrected to 'in game'. The game counts pilots only, whereas RL aircraft have between 1 and 11 crew (if you count US). So counting aircraft is better. The US lost c43000 aircraft overseas. And then, of course there is the question of how you are using them? Lots of airfield and other flak traps? Or Interdiction? How does this compare to RL?

So, would you like to research and tell us what the losses should be, I am all for increased accuracy in losses...

None of my *sniping* is unsubstantiated of your 70,000 47,000 Bomber crews were KIA and another 8,100 were killed in accidents. The Typhoon losses are way out of whack. Fighter command lost 4,790 aircraft the whole war in six months in Italy I have lost 1300 fighters or Fighter bombers and 980 level bombers totalling 2500 pilots/aircrew killed in action. All this without the luftwaffe for 4 months as its down to 200 sorties a turn. Italy is a low intensity theatre. As I said Figther Command and 2nd tactical airforce did not send pilots to their deaths Flak was worked out by inteligence and recce and the pilots briefed by flak specialists each op these measures were adopted by the 8th airforce. 696 Flak losses and 1476 operational losses is nonsense. I dont attack airbases because I knew from reading AAR's Flak was totally out of whack

For instance I have now as many operational Wellington X losses in Italy as Bomber command endured the whole war and one quarter of total losses for the aircraft. And bomber comand was on freaking night ops

Lancaster operational losses 0.16%
Halifax operational losses 0.24%
Wellington operational losses 0.72%
Mosquito operational losses 0.13%
Stirling operational losses 0.32%
Hampden operational losses 1.26%
Blenhiem operational losses 0.81%
Whitley (widow maker) operational losses 1.43%

etc etc or 0.35% for bomber command *mainly night ops*

It has to said RAF operational losses hugely diminished as the war went on.

[barkman44]

My father had a little diorama on his desk at home.
It was a fish going after a hooked worm.
Underneath was the quote"Even a fish wouldn't get in trouble,if he kept his mouth shut!"