COMMANDER THE GREAT WAR AND ITS FUTURE.

[Hellfirejet]

Yes these are the kind of shock historical events,that all add to the drama and feel of living througth the war while playing the game, I like this.[;)]

[Hellfirejet]

ORIGINAL: AEWHistory

ORIGINAL: Meteor2

I just finished a game with the latest patch.
Enjoying the game much, but a few observation I would like to share.
Playing as CP, it seems (in this one game), that the Entente-AI is a little bit confused about strategic goals.
1. Even when German troops are deep in France and Russia, the AI decides, that invading Turkey (as Russia) and defending Serbia (as France)
is far more important and shifts troops to this locations. So Paris and Leningrad fell.
2. Portuguese troops are defending Italy. Strange...
3. Italian troops racing east to help Serbia, but unaware of an encirclement from the north. So 6 Italian armies lost in that swing.
And the Swiss border was not complete any more after German troops passed in the west. Swiss and France territory was unified then.
And (you know that already, I think) some event messages were not "correct" and programming left-overs were seen...

But: An interesting game. Please continue the good work.[;)]

I've played a LOT of SP and a little MP.

1. I wholeheartedly concur with this. There are times when Serbia looks like an armed camp and the soldiers probably couldn't find space to lay down because there are so many there. OTOH, the thinnest of thin lines may hold other, far more critical areas. The allies should try to help Serbia, but not at all costs.
2. I don't have a problem with this. When Portugal and other small power enter the war they'll be needed to plug holes, so it makes sense to send them wherever needed. IMHO, it makes sense to spread out a country like Portugal so all their assets aren't on one front and getting smashed to pieces. It allows them so cycle in and out of combat, fill gaps, etc.
3. Yea, the Italian army isn't very good at make decisions.... seems to me to be perfectly scripted! [:D]. But seriously, I agree that the Italians botch things badly. OTOH, I don't have a prob with the Italians sending troops to Serbia or elsewhere, so long as they are not critically needed in Venice and Tyrol.
4. I'm not sure I understand your point about Swiss and French territory.

I love this game and would like to see it built upon and made better. Moreover, I'd gladly buy another version. However, as you've noted there are some issues that require attention....

Aaron

Guys I read all your posts, and I do try to act on suggestion regarding problem area's in the game, the game has been out for roundabout 2 years now, and I have been involved officially for less than half that time, the game is not standing still it is evolving, I'm working hard in the background trying to advance the game and add new stuff, which entails a great many hours spent on the game, on a lighter note I might add my wife gives me a lot of grieve, telling me I care more about the game than I do her! between you and me I think she is right, but don't tell her eh![:D]

[Hellfirejet]

ORIGINAL: euroaron

there were so called two important resources in ww1: coal, indeed, but practically none of the coal mines of the war countries were in danger, except some french ones occupied by the germans in 1914 that caused some cold days for the french people later on. the other one was the food. that was serious! serbian soldiers were starving in 1915, food was portioned in Germany from 1916, ersatz foods appeared everywhere, and even England struggled from the lack of food. nevertheless the food, well, its lack of course, ruined only the morale, but not the combat skills of the armies.
my view is that the future presence of any physical resource than PP and MP would not give too much for the game experience, but would make it more complicated.
what, ammo? c'mon. you can buy cheap ww1 ammo in the internet... they did produce a lot!

Indeed the lack of food played a huge part in the war for all sides, I'm looking at adding more Country specific events to highlight this issue, again these new events will have a small National Morale penalty attached.[;)]

PS: Regarding the mod info you emailed me to test, there are some very interesting points you raise, I mostly like the idea that convoys only supply PPs when they arrive at there destination, and not MP! I mean there are transports in the game,that should be used for any manpower related events. Increasing Britain's Manpower from the start, to take into account her commonwealth overseas, IE: Canada, Australia etc.Also I like the banning of returning PPs when units are disbanded,I'm like you if for whatever reason you decide to disband a unit, it should only return manpower for your Country. I also noted that you allocated building cost for Pre-Dreadnoughts & Armoured Cruisers, this is not needed, as you can't build these units in game, what you start with is all you get, if they get sunk they are gone forever.[;)]

[euroaron]

thanks for the silverton event! good job, well done!

allow me to run around the mesopotamian front.
so there is persia, with an interesting status in the reality, but lets put playability in the highlight: it was a field of battles, so practically war country. the parties are the ottoman, the russian and the british forces, but none of them could send here serious troops, they used local tribesmen instead. this was really an omega front (the oil became strategic resource right after the war, but that is another story). how could this whole be modeled? kirk's solution is alright, but for me it seems merely a fiction and pointless (i beg your pardon!): i do not debate that there was some allied navy in the persian gulf, perhaps some ottoman as well, but there was no clash between them, there were no landing forces and no coastal bombardment - i did not search, i just remember so. the ottomans marched into persia and conquered sand and rocks, then the british sucked at the city of kut, but they received reinforcement and won. ah yes, there were british indian army units too. a true wargamer would piss into the pants from the pleasure, such colorful units!
so, in the game, how? i say, forget the extra cities, ports and ships. there are the ARAB infantry (garrison and cavalry only, infantry would be too strong) units and the SPAWN option! may the upkeep of these arab units set to ZERO! they cannot be bought, but LIKE CONVOYS they come to play time by time around the appropriate cities of mesopotamia and persia. so does the british indian force units, but they have upkeep cost, of course. lets put a persian infantry in the capital of persia and persian garrisons in her other cities, and here comes the challenge: do NOT allow them to move and collect money for persia, until (catch this out!): any CP units hits or cuts the supply of a persian unit! then persia joins real, moving and buying units, etc. meanwhile persia gives support to the EA.

if you can script this, greece is the next step. greece also had a special status and wobbled among both sides and neutrality. in 1915 serbian units retreated to greece territory and british forces also gathered there, but there were no serious battles in those lands, the CP armies did not cross the border, not important why. the people of greece disliked the presence of the EA troops and they supported the CP more, and in 1916 they fell in a real civil war in that only the EA interwent and decided the victor, so greece joined the war this way. i have no idea how this could be put in the game! no, that is not true, i do have something in my mind, but it cannot be translated the current state of the game. not even the persian way above. it is far more complicated. or not?

i do not want to rise too much topics, so let these two rolling on!

PS: i made a small mistake in that mod, as i banned only the level 1 bomber technology for russia, but left level 2 in progress, and 2 beats 1, and... for shame. about the cost of ships, i think i put them, because they were free to repair, no PP, i presume? sorry, i do not remember any more... but the repair process is also interesting, only 1 PP for a dreadnaught? okay...

[operating]

allow me to run around the mesopotamian front.
so there is persia, with an interesting status in the reality, but lets put playability in the highlight: it was a field of battles, so practically war country. the parties are the ottoman, the russian and the british forces, but none of them could send here serious troops, they used local tribesmen instead. this was really an omega front (the oil became strategic resource right after the war, but that is another story). how could this whole be modeled? kirk's solution is alright, but for me it seems merely a fiction and pointless (i beg your pardon!): i do not debate that there was some allied navy in the persian gulf, perhaps some ottoman as well, but there was no clash between them, there were no landing forces and no coastal bombardment - i did not search, i just remember so. the ottomans marched into persia and conquered sand and rocks, then the british sucked at the city of kut, but they received reinforcement and won. ah yes, there were british indian army units too. a true wargamer would piss into the pants from the pleasure, such colorful units!
so, in the game, how? i say, forget the extra cities, ports and ships. there are the ARAB infantry (garrison and cavalry only, infantry would be too strong) units and the SPAWN option! may the upkeep of these arab units set to ZERO! they cannot be bought, but LIKE CONVOYS they come to play time by time around the appropriate cities of mesopotamia and persia. so does the british indian force units, but they have upkeep cost, of course. lets put a persian infantry in the capital of persia and persian garrisons in her other cities, and here comes the challenge: do NOT allow them to move and collect money for persia, until (catch this out!): any CP units hits or cuts the supply of a persian unit! then persia joins real, moving and buying units, etc. meanwhile persia gives support to the EA.

euroaron has some interesting ideas!

[euroaron]

let me recommend you some more funky events!
- your country needs you! ))
- the easter rising in dublin
- hms hampshire sank, death of lord kitchener
- death of franz josef
- execution of mata hari
- assassination attempt(s) against lenin
- the aster revolution in hungary, death of prime minister istvan tisza
- woodrow wilson's fourteen points

none of them has any war effect, but their colors!

[euroaron]

"In November 1914 German Admiral Tirpitz decided to have mines laid in the confluence of the Thames. Torpedoboats S115, S117, S118 and S119 sailed out, but the British units were already waiting for them: at first a submarine, later a cruiser and four destroyers appeared. German captain Thiele performed a suicide attack that destroyed the german ships. End of story... not! On 30 November a British fishing boat near the Dutch island of Texel took a chest out of the waves. It contained the Commercial Book. This book was used to decode all the messages of the German sea and land forces, consuls, diplomats and the colonial authorities. From mid-December 1914 the Admirality was informed daily about every step of the Kriegsmarine.
The Germans reacted pathetically slow. They changed the codes only in 1916, first on monthly, then daily base. But the coding system remained the same! So London was often informed about the message sooner than the addressee..."

big shame, that it cannot be put in the game...

[DanielHerr]

"I have been involved officially for less than half that time, the game is not standing still it is evolving, I'm working hard in the background trying to advance the game and add new stuff, which entails a great many hours spent on the game"

Do you get paid for that Kirk?

[Hellfirejet]

ORIGINAL: DanielHerr

"I have been involved officially for less than half that time, the game is not standing still it is evolving, I'm working hard in the background trying to advance the game and add new stuff, which entails a great many hours spent on the game"

Do you get paid for that Kirk?

I just checked game was released Nov 2012 and I got asked to get involved officially Feb/March 2013 my goodness time does really fly when you are busy doing stuff, the simple answer to your question is yes, but I ain't going to be able to retire any time soon, but then again when I got involved with the game it was not for any offer of money, I got involved simply because the powers that be seen that I was an active modder off the game,pure and simple.[;)]

PS: Daniel did you receive the Supply Truck art I sent you?[:)]

[DanielHerr]

Yup, I got the images and just finished modding its behavior

[Hellfirejet]

Cheers!

Your Country Needs You Event.

[euroaron]

it is gonna be long and hard like the wand of the donkey.

let me share you my view about the diplomacy of this game.

about what?

true! what is called in this game diplomacy is merely a pop-up window report about the attitude of every country, a counter, and a declare war button that is the most diplomatic option in this menu. it is clearly seen that to call this whole to diplomacy is a strong exaggeration.

but do not bin it! rename it instead! call it what it really is: INTELLIGENCE! and remove the declare war button to a new menu with the title of DIPLOMACY!

how do i imagine the diplomacy in this game? this is a historical war game, so diplomacy adds just an extra taste to it like the salt in the stew, important, but it is not in the first line. both playability and historical accuracy have to match.

so ww1, theatre europe. some of the countries have all their cards on the table, others still have them in hand and some countries are to be out of this game. the first group contains the ringleaders: austria, serbia, germany, belgium, france, britain with the commonwealth, russia, the ottoman empire and persia. they have no choice, they enter and fight at their side. all i would give them: targets, goals (let me detail later). those who joined the camps later are in the second group: italy, bulgaria, portugal, usa, romania and greece. they have to be granted some choice, either join any side or watch the story outside being neutral. the third group is about the neutral ones: netherlands, denmark, norway, sweden, spain and switzerland. they cannot be brought in war except they are attacked.

before i carry on, let me introduce the concept of the CLAIM. the subjects of the claim are cities, forts, capitals, ports and the territories around them, say so war targets a country fights for, tokens the big guns pay in the diplomacy with. some claims are historical (like italy joined entente with the promise to get trieste and trento) others are fictional (like serbia fights for sarajevo and cattaro). in the game it means if a city is claimed, like an italian one from above, say trento, if any other entente power conquers it but italy, it does not matter, it belongs to italy as promised. a deal is a deal!

one more new concept has to be introduced, the PASSAGE. the passage grants the units of other countries to move in the territory of the country, either having support or not, but the units and the status of the country remains neutral. this is useful two ways. persia and greece are obvious, they were battlefields without official declarations of war. but what if a country surrenders?

let me detail this. pretend that germany conquered half of france in early 1916, paris included, and france is to surrender. the present game this is a message only, france turns to neutral, germany keeps the territories she conquered, blah, blah. what is this? rubbish! there would have been negotiations and deals behind this event, lets translate them to this game an elegant but easy way. so the message comes: france would surrender. terms are following: france is out of war, she receives her german occupied cities back, french claims are void, claims against france have to be completed, passage is granted to germany and her allies, french units abroad have to move home territories automatically or be disbanded, and a tribute is to paid germany every turn. the CP may decide: signs the peace treaty or not? choose yes: see above - and in this case the other entente units are also obliged to leave france territories as well having a special kind of passage that are valid only for them moving (out of) there, but any other entente units are not allowed to enter the french territories any more; or they may resist this not respecting the french decision: that means war with france and france joins CP! if the CP does not accept the terms, well, that means france stays in war with something special: france receives some extra morale, like 50, and some extra manpower too, like 200 angry men, but no PP. and the war rages on...

see? this is closer to the reality. you have a choice. and playability is considered.

now get back to diplomacy. first of all, the claims of the countries have to be set, they are default. below is a draft about.

the first group:
AUSTRIA - she starts war. she claims venice from italy, belgrade, kraljevo, nis, skopje, tirana and cetinje from serbia. if bulgaria joins CP, the claim of nis becomes void.
SERBIA - she starts war. she claims sarajevo and cattaro.
GERMANY - she joins central in turn 3. she claims novo-georgievsk, warsaw, brest-litovsk, riga, kovno and vilna from russia.
BELGIUM - she joins entente in turn 3. she has no claims.
FRANCE - she joins entente in turn 3. she claims metz and strassburg from germany, beirut, damascus and aleppo from the ottoman empire.
BRITAIN - she joins entente in turn 4. she claims gaza, aqaba, jerusalem, mosul, samarrah, baghdad, kut, basra and kuwait from the ottoman empire.
RUSSIA - she joins entente in turn 5. she claims konigsberg, danzig, posen and breslau from germany, prague, krakow, lemberg and przemysl from austria, erzurum and samsun from the ottoman empire.
TURKEY - she joins central in turn 10. she claims batumi, sarikamish and tiflis from russia, port said, ismailia, suez, cairo, alexandria and nicosia from britain and heraklion from greece.
PERSIA - she has special rules. she gives passage to the entente with full supply, her units do not move and she does not join the entente unless their units are insulted by CP units. she has no claims.

the second group:
ITALY - she is to join entente in turn 25, except paris falls before(!) then joins central instead(!). she claims trieste and trento from austria OR tunis, sfax and mareth from france (both ways are historical).
BULGARIA - she joins central if serbian city of nis conquered by central AND all big central countries are still in war. she claims the city of nis against serbia (the appropriate austrian claim becomes void), fort of roupel against greece and the city of constanta against romania (big bulgaria dream completed).
PORTUGAL - she joins entente in turn... er, sorry, i do not know, 9 march 1916 or sooner (on account of the sea warfare), except paris falls before(!) then stays neutral instead. she may join again if usa joins(?). she surrenders if france, britain and italy have surrendered. anyway, this fictional line still has to be worked out. but she has no european claims, sure.
USA - she joins entente in 6 april 1917 or earlier (sea warfare). she surrenders if the war in europe is over. she has no claims.
ROMANIA - she joins entente if the manpower of austria is less than 90% AND the russian cities of vinnytsia, chisnau, odessa and kiev are not conquered by central AND paris has not fallen AND italy and russia have not surrendered. she joins central if the russian cities of vinnytsia, chisnau, odessa and kiev are conquered by central AND all big central countries are still in war. she claims the cities of klausenburg, temeschburg and debrecen OR the cities of vinnytsia, chisnau and odessa (the appropriate bulgarian claim becomes void).
GREECE - she has special rules, the civil war and hesitates between both sides. the greek units do not move, the entente units are allowed to move her territories (passage granted) but they DO NOT receive supply from the greek cities. she joins entente if there are at least nine (i just wrote a number) entente units on her territory (island of crete does not count!) deciding the civil war AND italy is still in war AND paris is not conquered. she joins central if italy is out of war OR paris has fallen AND all big central countries are still in war (the appropriate bulgarian claim becomes void). she has no claims.

the third group:
NETHERLAND, DENMARK, SWEDEN, NORWAY, SWITZERLAND and SPAIN: they are not to join any side, but can be attacked. the war declaration gives some extra morale and manpower to the countries of the other side.

graphic realisation in the game: a new panel is needed, diplomacy. like in the current diplomacy menu, the countries are listed on the right. having clicked on a country the info panel on the left shows the conditions of the join. there are two blocks in this, the entente and the central. each block contains the terms of join with a tick if they are met. below the conditions there is a button that is active only if all conditions above are met: the country is ready to join. click it, the country joins, welcome to the club, bro. on the bottom left there is the declare war button from the old diplomacy removed. if a power is already in war, the info panel shows nothing special, or some resource (strictly PP) allocation thing can be put here, whatever.

that's it. by numbers the cp was predestined to lose, but some what-if events can color the game and change the history. what if paris had fallen in 1914 or early 1915? would italy have joined entente anyway or would she have chosen the old allies? if romania had not had the powerful russian forces in her back would she have attacked the strong austria? or if there had been a real counter-proposal about a border correction toward east on the table would she have chosen the CP? interesting questions, think about them.

thank you for your attention.

[operating]

This line caught my attention and I think euroaron makes a good point.[;)]

in the game it means that a city is claimed, like the italian ones, if any other power conquers them but italy, no matter, they belong to italy, as promised. a deal is a deal!

[Hellfirejet]

I would like to see the games diplomacy improved, but I don't think its ever going to be an in depth, enhancement. Some off the above suggestions, could be introduce into the game via event popups, as and when they happen. That said now that the Bulgaria activation issue is a thing of the past, I thought I would post this event, as some games may never have seen its activation before, if Bulgaria does not enter the war.[;)]

[Hellfirejet]

Food shortage in Germany[;)]

[Hellfirejet]

There has been an on going debate, since the game was first released nearly 3 years ago, regarding the Ruhr area of the map, I have decided to have a cluster of 3 Cities, to enhance this area of the maps importance to Germany. These Cities are as follows: Dortmund, Essen & Duesseldorf.[;)]

[euroaron]

if it is about to correct the map, would you please...
- rename the romanian fort of ARAD to CRAIOVA (arad is roughly one hex above temeschburg!!!)
- replace the hungarian capital BUDAPEST to her correct place, two hexes to the west.
- replace the hungarian city of DEBRECEN to her correct place (no idea where should it be, but to the south for sure) or rename the city to what it is... perhaps MISKOLC? KOSICE (KASSA)?
- the austrian capital of VIENNA is also located wrong. for me it seems like BRATISLAVA (POZSONY) now... VIENNA should be in the next hex to the west and south.

the balkan is a mess!

[Hellfirejet]

ORIGINAL: euroaron

if it is about to correct the map, would you please...
- rename the romanian fort of ARAD to CRAIOVA (arad is roughly one hex above temeschburg!!!)
- replace the hungarian capital BUDAPEST to her correct place, two hexes to the west.
- replace the hungarian city of DEBRECEN to her correct place (no idea where should it be, but to the south for sure) or rename the city to what it is... perhaps MISKOLC? KOSICE (KASSA)?
- the austrian capital of VIENNA is also located wrong. for me it seems like BRATISLAVA (POZSONY) now... VIENNA should be in the next hex to the west and south.

the balkan is a mess!

Altering the names and City position's on the map is the easy part. As far as I can tell, after doing a web search, CRAIOVA is a City and not a fortress, is this correct for World War 1 time line?[;)]

[euroaron]

some more observations about the current diplomacy. the facts below are based on the 1914 scenario.
- you are not able to declare war against neutral countries in the first 5 turns. why?
- from the sixth turn you are able to declare war against anybody. that means the central power can declare war against turkey or bulgaria or both or the entente can declare war against the usa or portugal. whaaat???
- both sides are allowed to declare war against the non-existent power of arabia. of course arabia surrenders at once. i did not find out what will the later consequences be, but let a facepalm fly...

[euroaron]

i have changed the name of arad to craiova in the construction.lua, but in the game the new name has not been presented it turned to blank showing just the PP. i presume there must be something else linked too, event, picture, both, more?

anyhow, craiova or not, fort or not, arad was a hungarian city that time with a different location, so that fort there must be named something else.