Starting out - drowning vs swimming

[bigred]

Welcome. Find a player and get going. May the random generated dice be with u.

[Roghain]

Even if I already knew that from perusing these forums, I am still a little humbled by the responses I get here from you gentlebeings, so thanks for having taken the time to follow my ramblings en thoughts and offer all sorts of help, suggestions and whatnot. It is very much appreciated.

Ividja - the aforementioned cat-aide-de-camp - appreciated the comments and would like t point out that she, indeed, is comfortable and not inclined to move, but from her advantageous position well able to stomp on the spacebar on occasion. Of course, that feline morse code baffles the good people at Station HYPO [:'(]

Let me start with the various things said about the data mining utilities. I have downloaded a few, and will look them over once I feel the need for anything. from what I learn so far is that I an propably needing some utility that organises data in an easy to read/sort/organise manner because I am thinking the Kull spreadsheet will get less and less useful as time progresses in the game. Once I do start looking at them, I'll let you know what I find and think.

@Barb - thanks a bunch. I will edit my earlier Q&A verview post and take your answers into that. Cheers!

@Disco Duck - I have not even started to come to grips with the auto-convoy system. I kinda sorta imagined I must first understand how to organise that manually afore trusting the puter to do that. The reference to Victoria will come in handy once His Celectial Majesties forces have set foot on Canadian soil. No, there is nothing wrong with being ambitious.

@Matt - I sypathise with your plight reagrding the wandering fingers and the vigilance of cats - we have a Balineese who tends to sleep under (in spite of my outspoken and very vehement objections) the blankets. Nothing is as entertaining as during sleep having your kneecap mangled by an irate feline. Unless its a stray USN sub actually beating that 90% dud rate and puttng a dent in a prized carrier.

@BigRed - thanks for the vote of confidence, but I would not be a fine opponent so I will first try and get a good feel for the game before getting into a Human vs human game.

[pontiouspilot]

Welcome to time well wasted....it's time to quit thinking and fretting about things and just jump in ...it doesn't matter which end. I tend to agree with Symon's thoughts. The more you do the long-hand and unautomatic way the more you absorb. You likely want to start with AI but that will wear thin quickly. You will have no trouble finding a real opponent. Even if you get your ass kicked the 1st time you will find most here great gentlemen and you will learn lots.

[Marshall]

love the post,

but taking control of the Japanese, will give you a very deep dive in the blue ocean of pacific warfare [8D]!

Especially the industry management and primary strategic goals, and mass micromanagement to coordinate your offensive can be daunting!

But the community here is great, and always willing to help out.
If you can get to grip with the game on Japanese side, then you are well on your way to getting addicted for life [:D]

So cheers to your first campaign! (or sake of course)

[Roghain]

Oh, indeed, it's not deep blue - us Europeans think it's called black [:)]

As to getting hooked, that all depends on how much of a chore it remains. I am led to believe that the first turn is the worst, so I am clinging to that. I can't be bothered to eter orders for 6-8 hours every turn, to be sure.

[topeverest]

9 years and still learning almost every turn. There are a dozen or more turns that might take that long during a game, but the average for me is about 60 minutes.

This is not a game where 'things' get done for you, so you have to pay attention to many details. The upside, is you have specific upside when you do things well.

[CaptDave]

Just to augment the answer to one of your questions (in case this is an instance of "missing the trees for the forest" or vice versa):

If the hex you're trying to find coordinates for is reasonably close to a base (including a dot base), meaning that they both appear on the same screen, then you can hover the pointer over the base and see its coordinates. After that it's simple enough to count to the hex you want and figure out its coordinates (expecting to be right about 50% of the time if it's an odd number of rows away and you can't remember which one shifts left and which one shifts right).

I realize, of course, that Murphy laughs maniacally when I talk about the two hexes being on the same screen!

[Roghain]

One hour huh? That sounds like fine. Have to admit that as we speak, I am a tad hard pressed to see myself being that fast. Either I am a tremendous slowpoke, or I must be doing something wrong. Of coruse, I am searching all over the map to find the most tonguebreaking bases. Badabaelzebub... sure.
And Captain Dave's suggestion is just what I have been doing, but coming from HoI3, I am quite spoiled in 'hover over' pop-ups.

That being said, I am slowly finding my way in China - too bad the last weekend was filled to the brim with family obligations (really - damn genes!) and I managed to play not a minute.

I reckon Murphy will not just laugh maniacally but enter through 'hysteria' and exiting through 'padded-rooms-this-a-way' before I push 'end orders phase' for the first time.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

9 years and still learning almost every turn. There are a dozen or more turns that might take that long during a game, but the average for me is about 60 minutes.

This is not a game where 'things' get done for you, so you have to pay attention to many details. The upside, is you have specific upside when you do things well.

+1

You get mch more efficient as you play more. I can do a turn in 15 minutes if I need to most of the time now. I don't like to though a I really enjoy being in the turn and tweaking little stuff, so when I have the time I take it. I can spend 3 hours on a turn a well! [:)]

[Dante Fierro]

Roghain - great initial post. I had a beloved aide-de-cat for many many years, and she assisted me with many tough climates and battle conditions. I miss her!

It was great to come across your post here as I am in a similar situation as yourself right now (minus cat). The game is massive, perhaps the most massive game I've ever attempted or encountered. The forums here (and community) are invaluable and ... extensive. So I've been going about mining/gleaning what information I can from the forums here, and all the helpful answers to questions posters have provided over the many years the game has been out.

The AARs are also a great source of learning the ropes too IMO. I've slowly been working my way through a few, taking notes as I go along. You get some really interesting perspectives and ideas and game concepts you will not find elsewhere methinks - reading the AARs. They are also very entertaining - if you like this sort of thing i.e. watching snails race across the pavement??

I have taken a similar approach to yourself i.e. purviewed a number of online tutorial videos - and they were quite good I thought. I also have downloaded Kullstartup spreadsheet for and when I get to my first attempt at the Grand Campaign GC with the AI, I'm still working on the Coral Sea scenario - then will graduate to Guadalcanal ... then will see what I attempt afterward.

I have also downloaded WitPtracker, Combat Reporter and Intel Monkey. Mostly because, after reading some of the AARs, many of the player swear by these extra tools to data mine and I figure in a game this massive, they're probably right. I mean, yeah you could probably play just as well without them - take notes on a notepad, but heck, I'm going to check them out, and if I don't like what I see - I'll just not use them.

I've also created an AE Notes folder and started numerous docs with different subject headings such as: Bases, Carriers, AlliedStrategy, Economics101, HQs, Leadership, Mines, Naval Search, Repair - the list seems almost endless. Each document I have slowly collected via cut and past methods information/answer to questions strategy ideas I have encountered mostly on these forums or in the AAR reports I have read. Then like a good soldier - I regularly review said documents when I'm working out certain functions in the games (Sub patrol anyone? ASW efforts?)

For example, here are a few notes I have made based on my readings on the forum. My apologies to the original authors who made the posts for not mentioning their names herein - but I bow down to your wisdom and generosity for sharing your expertise here on these forums!

Regarding for example Carrier battles I have in my notes by one poster (actually I know who the poster is LoBaron in his "How to Orchestrate a Carrier Battle":

A carrier battle only fought by carriers is the worst possible way to do it.

Better have subs with your carriers to intercept approaching enemy carriers and sink cripples after battles. Even better have surface action groups supporting you that can either thwart enemy SAGs, pose a threat to enemy carriers, or act as a deterrence for your own flattops. And the best is if you operate in range of your own LBA. Nothing can ruin a day for the enemy nicer than a CV engagement salted with a couple of medium attack bombers making runs at sea level.

Another note on carrier battles:

I just don't put a lot of reliance on seaplane based search. Every attack unit in my carrier fleet is set to 10% patrol and to use drop tanks. Or one or two TBF units is set to 80% naval search with drop tanks. The 10% loss in combat strength is worth the saturated patrol area and increased DLs provided. Your best bet in a carrier fight is to create the highest DL possible. I hope this discussion is stickied. It is going to make a good reference.

Or another nugget gained from reading AARs:

You always have to set up your CAP depending on your requirements. In case you need to protect shipping high alt does not make sense, you need small staggered
CAP at expected or slightly above expected inbound alt, supported by a couple of low alt patrols against sea skimming torp bombers or LowN trained mediums.

So it goes. I have found I have compiled hundreds of notes now. And I feel like I'm a monk in a monastery sometimes, slowly scribbling away my observations of ancient texts and ancient reports of battles - so that when I finally try go out to the training yards - I will have some idea on how to proceed.

Anyway - good luck mate with the game. I have subscribed to your thread here and look forward to your future observations and questions. And the game generates a lot of questions. 0.0 I find a single cup of coffee is not sufficient - nor do there seem to be enough hours in the day to read all the AARs and forum posts here. But I am finding the more I spend time with AE, the more addicted I become to its realism and challenge.

[Roghain]

Good morning Dante. Yeah, it's big. I am starting to think this is bigger than the vaunted 'Europa' series of days yore [;)]
Or maybe... 'The Longest Day'. At least, the pieces can't be shattered all over the map or kitchen floor by a cross breeze. ASL seems simple in comparison.

Thing is with the forums - there is almost too much information and as a newbie, it seems all but impossible to distill what you need - and what can wait. I tend to go back to history and see what was done when and why and try to use that in the game. It makes for slow going, because all of a sudden I have spent two hours on reading stuff on Hyperwar or Combined Fleet, but like it was pointed out someplace above - time well wasted.
As to time being in short supply - I hear you. I have started a citizen's campaign to have my elected representatives get going and rally for the 48 hour day. As it turns out - they'd rather bail out Big Money [:@]

[Dante Fierro]

LOL What do they say Roghain? Patience is a virtue?

Methinks by the time we're both done, we'll have become avatars of virtue.

[Roghain]

Well, I always wondered that.



Of course, now I also wonder if this, my 25th anniversary post, will net me a ban on account of being a rude Dutchman. Perhaps, to stay in character, I should be rude in Japanese.

Chikushō!

[Haarlem]

Ha, a fellow Dutchie, good luck with this splendid game !

"Je moet schieten, anders kun je niet scoren"
"You'll have to shoot, otherwise you can't score."

-- Johan Cruijff

[rustysi]

Perhaps, to stay in character, I should be rude in Japanese.

Chikushō!

I don't know what that means, but based on content I'll bet its not 'Howdy'.[:-][:D]

[Roghain]

Oh, not to worry. The Japanese - in contrary to my fellow Dutch - are even when they curse rather polite. This one, for instance, would translate as something like 'Oh, hell' or 'Oh, crap' but even that doesn't do it justice. It originates (if I am told correctly) in re-incarnation and suggests that the object being adressed will reincarnate as some form of beast or livestock. That is also the literal meaning of the word 'Chikushō'. In modern day Japanese, it is used like we say (for instance) 'damn'.

[Kull]

Responses in bold:

ORIGINAL: Roghain

Besides questions, I also ran into a few things that are not too obvious to a new player, but have a huge impact and need to be watched - or so I reckon. I also will keep some sort of rack of where I am at current. I will colour fully answered Qs green, and those open red. Yes, that does leave orange for half-answered (half open? depends on your philosophical outlook)

Game status:

As of last date edited (qv). Playing will be mostly limited to weekends, but some early morning activity might happen.

Game date: December 8th, 1941.
Currently doing; Entering orders from spreadsheet by Kull. Page 14 of 80.

Questions:

01) Kull's sheet mentions turning on upgrades and replacements on all LCUs except those in Manchuko and Korea. How does one select all units in a certain area?
-- Apparently, you cannot. best way to get around this is by finding out which HQs are deployed to the area you want to change, then select all the ground units attached to said HQ. needles to say, this means that when units are spread across various areas, you will select too many.

That would probably be a mistake on my part. Upgrades especially should be "off" almost universally because you might upgrade fragments and be unable to combine units into say, Divisions, until ALL the others have upgraded. Reinforcements are probably OK to have on, except in the noted regions. One less thing to worry about, especially when just learning the game.

03) If an air-unit is set to train, is it safe to say you should always set the range to 0 in order to minimize accidentally running into trouble? And setting training to 100% and range 0, is that gamey?
-- Most players do that I suppose. Higher % means more pilots from the unit are training, and with range 0 their fatigue is minimal. But the training operational loss rates are minimal anyway. Note that some house rules limit training schedules tom 80%.

Set the range to Zero on training units, or else the fatigue will definitely climb - especially at 100%

04) Kull's sheet sets the planes of CS Mizuho at the same mission (naval search) but different percentages: the Petes go 45%, the Jakes 55%. There seems to be little difference between the two units except the fatigue, though minor (Petes fatigue 1, Jakes 0). Is that indeed the deciding factor here?

There really is no difference between 45 and 55. I think they both start at 25, and that's just too low. Probably also better off to have your Pete's on ASW and the Jakes on Search, simply for range reasons.

10) In Kull's spreadsheet, I fail to understand why LCUs with almost identical destinations and orders how to get there have varying 'Future objectives'. From what I understand, using the 'Future objective' is all but mandatory for successful attacks?

Quite often the first destination isn't really the place you'll need prep points for an attack. It takes a looooong time to get a unit up to 100% from zero (or even 25-33 if you switch a 100 prepped unit to a new objective), and the Japanese need to string together a lot of conquests in a fairly short period of time. Also many of their early opponents are so weak, you can attack with no points and still wipe out the opposition. The spreadsheet can only suggest so much, and the different objectives are kind of a clue about how to sequentially deploy your forces.

11) Speaking of future objectives - is it me or are only (potential) bases valid objectives? Why?

Yes, you can't choose non-base hexes, if that's what you mean. As to why, probably limited utility in the minds of the coders, and thus better things to spend limited coding time on. The majority of your tough targets are sitting at some sort of base, anyway.

12) LCUs - I am unable to set waypoints for them like for TFs. WAD of am I missing something?

WAD

13) I keep struggling with details. I understand the need to set various altitudes for different types of planes flying different missions. But why would I want to have different altitudes for identical planes flying identical missions? Kull's sheet has a unit divide, then rebase to three different locations. All three sub-groups fly the same mission with identical parameters, but one is set to 20k, one to 15k and one to 10k. Why? What is the deciding factor here?

Air combat is a very interesting topic all by itself, and there can be many reasons for different altitudes. Bombers attacking targets with weak AA might as well go in as low as possible. Don't try that at Singapore, however! If they are fighters on defense, who and what is the likely attacker? In Malaya, those nasty stringbags (Vildebeeest and the fearsome Swordfish) will slip under your CAP if you set it too high, so even though the low CAP would be more vulnerable to a sweep (and less effective versus escorts), if you have expensive naval assets nearby, it's worth the risk. And there's probably 100s of other variables, which will slowly become apparent.

In a later post you noted that the spreadsheet becomes less useful after a few turns, and that is quite true, especially because every individual will have his own particular desires, that may not match up with my short-to-medium term objectives.

But that is totally OK! Because after a couple turns, you're knowledge of the workings will increases exponentially, just because you sat there entering in commands and destinations and setting altitudes and forming task forces, and a myriad other things.

And most of all wondering "why?", and then slowly figuring it out! Because that's where the real learning comes in.

It is a great game and I'm always thrilled to hear that my efforts (and those of the many others who spent time on tutorials and tools) have contributed toward someone's decision to join our grand adventure! Welcome aboard!

[jallison86]

Just want to say that I'm very pleased to have found this thread. I've just taken the plunge into AE after years of playing the basic game. Even with that base of knowledge I'm really wondering if I've bitten off more than I want to chew. The game looks terrific, of course, compared to WitP. But there's just a staggering amount of stuff going on. Firing up the first turn as the Allies and I see lots of B-17 units in the US. But I guess they disappear soon? Much more sophisticated chain of command too, it looks like, no more simple "West Coast" or "Central Pacific" commands. And that's just the tip of the iceberg...many more bases, lots of new ship types, lots of new aircraft types, and on and on. Much reading to do before diving in I guess. I downloaded the spreadsheet mentioned in the initial post and that's a great help. Will start nibbling and see what I can learn.

- Jeff

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: jallison86

Just want to say that I'm very pleased to have found this thread. I've just taken the plunge into AE after years of playing the basic game. Even with that base of knowledge I'm really wondering if I've bitten off more than I want to chew. The game looks terrific, of course, compared to WitP. But there's just a staggering amount of stuff going on. Firing up the first turn as the Allies and I see lots of B-17 units in the US. But I guess they disappear soon? Much more sophisticated chain of command too, it looks like, no more simple "West Coast" or "Central Pacific" commands. And that's just the tip of the iceberg...many more bases, lots of new ship types, lots of new aircraft types, and on and on. Much reading to do before diving in I guess. I downloaded the spreadsheet mentioned in the initial post and that's a great help. Will start nibbling and see what I can learn.

- Jeff

It'll take time but IMHO its worth it. [8D]

[Roghain]

Thanks Kull for stopping by and clarifying stuff. Much obliged for that as well as the tremendous sheet. As to figuring 'why', that's a given.

Last few weekends have been filled with other stuff and so not much has happened on the far-eastern front. Busy playing '2nd Fleet' and then there's the garden, housekeeping. Still, I must be really slow. So far I have been busy entering orders for about 10 hours or so and not even past the quarter mark on the spreadsheet. I need to speed up stuff or it will move from a 'chore' to 'boring work' and eventually to 'forgeddaboudit'. By now, I am beginning to think that the single most offsetting factor isn't the complexity, but the sheer amount of playing pieces one needs to give instructions to. I am, to be honest, only hanging in there because so many of you people can't be wrong about how great a game this is.