The Gamiest Game in Town - EL (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)

[el lobo]

Thank you for your response.

That sounds about like what I will have. I agree with your big hammer approach. Every time that I do not use it, it bites me in the butt like Batavia.

Thank you for all of the work and information that you have put into the “Magic Highway.” I don't have the patience like Mike to chart each turn so I don't know just how well it is working yet but I am moving large tankers of fuel out of Fusan to Fukuoka on a quad-daily +/- basis and oil about every eight, nine days, so it is coming from somewhere. (I am inputting directly from Pbang to Singers.)

I am not near as competent as you and Mike but I really enjoy the production side of the game and feel it is the key to winning for the Japanese. (Yes it said win. I know, pie in the sky for a newbie, but I'm going for it.) [:)]

[PaxMondo]

Keep pulling only from Fusan, oil and resources. If you do, it should work. ~85% chance it will align. Just always have ships loading even if there isn't enough present, that helps with the pull.

[el lobo]

Now you have me curious as to how I am doing. I'm going to track a full cycle. Here is what I am running.

[PaxMondo]

I generally don't pull fuel from asia, but its a player decision.

I definitely pull resources from asia though. I would get some convoys setup from Fusan. See if you can get that going at this stage. 50/50 it will work.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I generally don't pull fuel from asia, but its a player decision.

I definitely pull resources from asia though. I would get some convoys setup from Fusan. See if you can get that going at this stage. 50/50 it will work.

Wow, that's a big tip. It also raises a couple of questions. I have a little over 500K of fuel in Singapore and I was thinking that I needed to pull that toward Japan Proper. Should I just leave that fuel there for later use? Should I consider shutting-off refineries in Palembang for awhile and ship more oil to Singapore?

I have been pulling resources from Fusan as fast as I can load from day two but that has not been much. Perhaps by standing-down the fuel tankers it will load faster.

Thanks

[el lobo]

Feb 24 - 25 1942, Turn Eighty - Eighty-one

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Japanese forces CAPTURE Cebu !!!

Allied aircraft losses
Stearman 75M: 6 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
2685 casualties reported
Squads: 156 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 271 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 19 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 61 (61 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 36 (36 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 2

We march into an un-occupied Saingtan.

Japanese forces CAPTURE Toboali !!!

Situation in the PI.

I am getting a little organized around there. I have units moving form the north and south cleaning-up all of those little islands. I need to get a little more serious about Clark Field and the rest of Luzon. I have engineers coming in to build.

I am recombining a division at Davao that I will move over to Java which should give me a pretty good hammer there, three divisions plus.

All of my bases around there are filling-up to their storage limits with fuel so I am organizing a large tanker convoy to move fuel north. Truk is the only base that I have for now in the area that has unlimited storage and it has enough fuel of its own for now. If I didn't need the supplies so badly I would turn off the refineries and ship oil which I might do anyway. So far I have not shipped any supplies out of the HI so I may trade oil for supplies at the cost of fuel, of which I have plenty.

Except for the CD units and one lone xAKL with a PB escort shuffling some remaining supplies around, I am completely out of the Marshals. The units that were there are in, or moving into the PI for garrison and aviation support.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I generally don't pull fuel from asia, but its a player decision.

I definitely pull resources from asia though. I would get some convoys setup from Fusan. See if you can get that going at this stage. 50/50 it will work.

Wow, that's a big tip. It also raises a couple of questions. I have a little over 500K of fuel in Singapore and I was thinking that I needed to pull that toward Japan Proper. Should I just leave that fuel there for later use? Should I consider shutting-off refineries in Palembang for awhile and ship more oil to Singapore?

I have been pulling resources from Fusan as fast as I can load from day two but that has not been much. Perhaps by standing-down the fuel tankers it will load faster.

Thanks

Me, the way I play, I tend to use the fuel in the DEI for the IJN. So it is shipping to wherever I have created my depots. Yes, sometimes I can and do run excess of what is needed, and that does go to the HI. But that is generally sometime in '43 or so. In '42 I'm too busy.
All oil goes to the HI and there is usually plenty as I will repair oil centers captured but rarely refineries. Miri alone is a lot when repaired.

As for resources from Fusan, just keep xAK's there loading ... never stop loading. if you have oil running there you should be able to get resources. Oil and resource load limits are separate as far as I know. So, keep the oil loading. Don't slow it down.

[el lobo]

Thanks a lot Pax. This means a lot to me coming from the guru.

I have been tracking Pbang, Singers, HK, Shanghai, PA, and Fusan for ten days now not expecting to see any trends in such a short time frame but I got what I think, hope is a pleasant surprise this turn (84, 2-28-42). The oil supply at Fusan has held steady at two to seven hundred all through the survey, and the game, but this turn it jumped to ~15K. It came from PA of course but this is the first time PA has let this much go. Hopping this is the start of the pull.

I shut the fuel tankers at Fusan off this turn and will change some of them to oil, AND, I will keep the xAKs loading and make sure there are always some in the queue.

[el lobo]

Feb 26 - 27 1942, Turn Eighty-two - Eighty-three

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Japanese forces CAPTURE Toboali !!!
Japanese forces CAPTURE Sabang !!!

In China Rio has scattered out of Sian so it is going to be like shooting quail with a dear rifle. It appears he has moved out of Southern China for the most part leaving me with some undamaged factories.

Look at Chungking below. We know where everyone is going.

[PaxMondo]

[quote]ORIGINAL: el lobo

Thanks a lot Pax. This means a lot to me coming from the guru.

I have been tracking Pbang, Singers, HK, Shanghai, PA, and Fusan for ten days now not expecting to see any trends in such a short time frame but I got what I think, hope is a pleasant surprise this turn (84, 2-28-42). The oil supply at Fusan has held steady at two to seven hundred all through the survey, and the game, but this turn it jumped to ~15K. It came from PA of course but this is the first time PA has let this much go. Hopping this is the start of the pull.

I shut the fuel tankers at Fusan off this turn and will change some of them to oil, AND, I will keep the xAKs loading and make sure there are always some in the queue.
[/quote
Generally, when it starts to flow, it comes in slugs like this. Once a week or so initially, and then the frequency slowly increases. Just keep tankers there in small TF's always loading ... that creates the demand. Ditto Resources.

[el lobo]

Feb 28 1942, Turn Eighty-four

I've bombed and besieged and now it is time to banish.
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Ground combat at Clark Field (79,76)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 33615 troops, 424 guns, 348 vehicles, Assault Value = 1028

Defending force 26075 troops, 373 guns, 497 vehicles, Assault Value = 595

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 406

Allied adjusted defense: 532

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2635 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 151 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 78 disabled
Guns lost 19 (3 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Vehicles lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
836 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 183 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 36 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 67 (5 destroyed, 62 disabled)
Vehicles lost 32 (3 destroyed, 29 disabled)

[el lobo]

Mar 1 – 8, 1942, Turn Eighty-five to ninety-two

On a personal note, I just arrived back from my annual visit to the US, taking care of business and visiting family and friends. I got to spend some time with Rio but it's never enough but always quality. We talked a little about our game but that was hard to do without revealing our plans and strategies. We mostly gossiped about others' AARs and a lot of “what ifs” and “this is what I would do” kind of talk.

We were also able to clear-up some of the misunderstandings that we each had about the game mechanics which was helpful.

My traveling took a toll on the game progress but now it is time to get back to the IMPORTANT business.

I got careless and left this convoy un-escorted. You think I would have learned by now.
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Sub attack near Tokunoshima at 98,66

Japanese Ships
xAK Toho Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage - sunk!

Allied Ships
SS Pompano, hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
73 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

SS Pompano attacking xAK Toho Maru on the surface

The P.I. is coming along nicely. Clark Field is forts 0 and is quickly crumbling. Allied AV is down to ~310 (twenty-four units) and one unit was destroyed last attack. Forces will assault Batangas and Roxas this turn.
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Japanese forces CAPTURE Bacolod !!!
Japanese forces CAPTURE Iloilo !!!

I finally have enough troops at Bativa to take it but his troops are still behind forts 1. In the meantime I have completely surrounded them so at least I will not have to chase them all the way down Java.

In the same area, I got my sampler units of Nicks and Helens and the Nicks went to Palembang straight-away and put on night CAP. The Helens are at Oosthaven.

In China we walked into Hengyang un-opposed.
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Japanese forces CAPTURE Hengyang !!!

Western China.
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Japanese forces CAPTURE Tsuyung !!!

This cuts the roads and isolates China in the west. I will move the Sentai of Oscars from Kunming along with some bombers there and start building forts.

During one of out early morning recreation sessions, Rio mentioned that he had seen me coming for quite awhile and had been able to move eight units into Burma. That is a lot less than I had expected him to move-out of China. He also groaned that he forgot to move his planes out.

I am doing something in China that I did not want to do and that is moving in supplies from the H.I. I had hopped that China would be a little more self-sustaining but supply is low everywhere so I need to bump-start the factory repairs.

[GetAssista]

Hey, welcome back )

so I need to bump-start the factory repairs

Heavy industry only? Light indistry repairs cover their costs (1k supplies per factory) in over 3 years, so it would be the middle of 1945 when you would get additional supply from those.

[el lobo]

Hi GetAssista,

I am going to be selective. For example, Changsha has Resources 10(70), HI 8(52), LI 18(142) and has supply at twenty (and this base was taken un-opposed, go figure). I am not going to repair Resources or HI, for now, as I have plenty and I understand that there will be a three year payback on the LI but I think that is one base that I will control to the end, hopefully. Hengyang is similar. Regardless, many of my units are low on supplies.

I am dumping ~25k each at Hankow and Wuchang in hopes it filters out to the needed units and bases. I may fly some into Sain which has sat at twenty since I captured it.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Hi GetAssista,

I am going to be selective. For example, Changsha has Resources 10(70), HI 8(52), LI 18(142) and has supply at twenty (and this base was taken un-opposed, go figure). I am not going to repair Resources or HI, for now, as I have plenty and I understand that there will be a three year payback on the LI but I think that is one base that I will control to the end, hopefully. Hengyang is similar. Regardless, many of my units are low on supplies.

I am dumping ~25k each at Hankow and Wuchang in hopes it filters out to the needed units and bases. I may fly some into Sain which has sat at twenty since I captured it.

This is argued until the cows come home.
If you think that you can hold and keep allied bombers from Changsha until '45 then repairing the LI can have some payback. Otherwise, all you do is consume supply today that you need for a return that may never occur.

[el lobo]

What I am essentially hearing from two people is, “It's your game but if it were me I wouldn't repair them.”

It is a foolish man that does not follow the wisdom of his elders (metaphorically speaking of course). So repairs are off.

I want to track it a couple of more turns before I post some numbers but I think we have some good news at Fusan.

[PaxMondo]

One of the best ways to get supply is to steal it from your adversary. Taking bases from him that he has a supply pile in ... there are lots of opportunities for that in '42. And if your opponent is aggressive and trying to follow a historical timeline, then it is even easier as he will have pushed supply farther forward making it easier for you to take.

Think of it this way, if you are able to take a base with 100K supply, that is 4 days of your entire empire supply production, and more like 40 days of your current excess production. It is a big deal. Fuel is the same, you can steal a lot from your opponent if you plan it right.

[el lobo]

*laughing* I think Rio read your book. He mentioned to me that he gets pissed every time he has to leave supply behind. He has done a pretty good job of moving it out. But point taken.

[PaxMondo]

[:D][:D][:D]

One of the reasons I like to go into India is because of the stockpiles of supply and fuel. Calcutta and Madras are typically 500K each. That's a lot. I'm willing to spend a lot of effort and devices to take those pools. If I can hold those areas for 12 months, I can net another 500K. In the grand scheme of economy, these are REALLY big numbers. They translate into a lot more planes that I can build and support which means I still control the initiative in '43; the DEI stays safe well into '44 which is more supply/fuel meaning more planes ... I think you see where this goes ... of course, our opponent is doing everything he can to prevent the above. Catch is, in '42 you clearly have the initiative so you are driving, not him. He is reacting.

I'm not suggesting this is easy, it isn't. The concepts are simple, the execution ... well that is the game, right?

[el lobo]

I like your idea for a couple of reasons.

I want to do a limited expansion as I don't want to go out a take a bunch of stuff, hold it for six months or a year and then lose it or have it by-passed. I know that the gain is time which is important if not critical to make it to end-game but that has been done a thousand times before and Japan has lost the game that way 999 times.

I truly think that this game can be won by Japan, besides Auto-Victory, and you have spoken the word that I think is the key to doing so, airplanes.

Rio does not think that Japan has a snowball's chance in hell to win this game. In fact every time I hint at it he literally scoffs. He is so convinced that the Allies have so much stuff later-on that they are unstoppable. I don't think he realizes that Japan can out-produce him in air power and this is going to hurt him because he will not try as hard as he can or should in his own production.

Another reason you idea appeals to me is that I know how Rio is going to come at me. He is going to come through Thailand into China a la witpqs', “Rumble in the Southwest.” He will come at me other ways also but that will be his main thrust. I am thinking that my going into India may put a serious dent in that plan and it may delay him just as taking half the world would, but with a lot better ROI for me. I am going to put-up a very tight, very strong perimeter but unless I do something else to get his attention, he will just pick at it until he gets through. I have been considering a serious thrust at Brisbane but that is such a long supply chain. Also, Rio is very Australia oriented as he lived there for awhile, liked it, and has transferred those felling into the game. I think he will be more prepared to defend Australia than he would India and I think he expects me to venture into Australia, because he would. India has been in the back of my mind but frankly is scares me because I have not studied it at all.

If I decide to go into India, (1) I need to start reading some AARs with a limited but successful India execution such as you described. (2) I have read the first fifteen pages of Mike's AAR at least a dozen times and am getting ready to read it again as I learn something every time I do so. I am also following it as it is presently going and I realize that I am very woeful in my a/c production. I am being too conservative I think and I need to re-tool, hence the re-read. (3) I need to figure out how many troops I will need and from where they will come.

I appreciate your interest in our game.