John Tiller's vs CMx2

[zasgard]

To anyone who has played both.....

Other than the better graphics with CM2 what other major differences are there between CMx2 and John Tiller's Campaign Series?

I've played one of the CM demos and I was LOST. It seems pretty difficult and it doesn't cover the Early War (39-41) and no Pacific theater, where as Tiller's game covers it all (like SPWaW...which I would choose over both titles but I just can't handle the graphics).

Thanks

[wodin]

Different scale for starters. Really the only thing they have in common is that they are a wargame. Tillers Squad Battles is slightley more comparable as they are the same scale. Again though very different in how they go about it. I found SB excellent PBEM with the lads at The Blitz forum. SB for me along with the Steal Panthers games are still the best turn based tactical games around, but SB does have points that really get me like no multi level buildings, poor AFV modeling and for me a near game breaking mechanic for ammo reduction. Steel Panthers both WAW and WW2 versions are in need of a visual upgrade now I think..hopefully the upcoming Gary Grigsby game rectifies that.

SB is much easier to pick up and play than the CMx2 games and as I said if you enjoy playing by email you can't go wrong with them even with the negatives I mentioned. There are also lots of visual mods out there..some of which I've done to improve the looks. Red Victory is prob the best one to get to start with.

CMx2 I play WEGO which if your struggling I advise you to do aswell. Also if against the AI play the pre made scenarios or a campaign (save often, you can always then reload a previous save and try something different if the last thing you did was a mistake..this is a good way to learn what works and what doesn't). The AI DOESN'T work with quick battles. There are plenty of scenarios\campaigns to keep you going anyway.

For awhile I played alot of SB PBEM but in the end found being tied to a game wasn't for me and after that I found playing the AI wasn't enough so sadly my SB days ended.

CMx2 is never off my hard drive and apart from the Italy game I own them all. I am rubbish playing though. Also playing WEGO it can take awhile to finish a scenarios and along long time to finish a campaign. I still love WEGO though as you never miss any of the action being able to play it as often as you wnat from all angles. Something I miss loads in other tactical games. Lots out there with even better visuals but you end up missing a majority of it so it goes to waste.

[zasgard]

Wodin

Thank you so very much for that breakdown.

I was looking at John Tiller's Campaign Series....is that different from Squad Battles?

[Moltke71]

ORIGINAL: zasgard

Wodin

Thank you so very much for that breakdown.

I was looking at John Tiller's Campaign Series....is that different from Squad Battles?

Yes, SB is tactical while the Campaign Series is operational, i.e. regiments or brigades.

[zasgard]

Thanks Bismarck

I'll look at the SB series. Might stick to the Campaign series as SB's can add up in $$ since there are so many titles.

[zasgard]

Reading up on JT's Squad battles.

Do these games have editors so I can create my own battles? Didn't see it anywhere on the product pages.

[Moltke71]

Actually, Campaign Series games are more numerous. Observe:

http://johntillersoftware.com/
http://hpssims.com/ Look at the lists on the left panel.
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/319/details/John.Tiller's.Battleground.Civil.War
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/321/details/John.Tiller's.Battleground.Napoleonic.Wars

The Battleground series is basically the Campaign Series under his first publisher, Talonsoft, before he went into cooperation with HPS. He started his own company a few years ago.

[Moltke71]

ORIGINAL: zasgard

Reading up on JT's Squad battles.

Do these games have editors so I can create my own battles? Didn't see it anywhere on the product pages.

They all have editors,

[Recognition]

Its all a matter of taste and any given inspirational time period.
I've dabbled in most of them at some time and have found something to enjoy with them all.

My favorite ones that I spent the most time with ....and still do,

SB Tour of Duty ( Recommended )
Campaigns France 1914 ( Recommended if you are into WW1 and prepared for the long haul of game play )
CM Shock Force ( Highly Recommended )


Cheers

[Blond_Knight]

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

ORIGINAL: zasgard

Reading up on JT's Squad battles.

Do these games have editors so I can create my own battles? Didn't see it anywhere on the product pages.

They all have editors,

But not map editors. And the AI is rudimentary at best.

[zasgard]

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

ORIGINAL: zasgard

Reading up on JT's Squad battles.

Do these games have editors so I can create my own battles? Didn't see it anywhere on the product pages.

They all have editors,

But not map editors. And the AI is rudimentary at best.

Thank you for this info.

I don't mind not being able to edit the maps. I just want the ability to create my own battles, but if SB's AI isn't that great and JT's campaign series also suffers from poor AI, then maybe these two series aren't for me.

Maybe I just need to stick with Shrapnel's SPWaW Enhanced Ed for my all inclusive WW2 game.

[Blond_Knight]

If you're looking for the best AI try any of the Vik's games, Advance Tactics Gold or any of the Decisive Campaigns series.
Or Command Ops 2(the base game is free)

[Jakers123]

There is Point of attack 2, which is again more of a platoon and above level game, but you can create battles yourself and its really rewarding once you learn it, it has a awesome armor penetration system, maybe the most realistic in any game, but there is a problem, it is way more complicated than any CM and to be honest I don't find CM complicated at all, even in real time, plus I only consider real time games realistic and well..interesting, you can't have a ,,turn" in real life, just like in for example soccer, imagine if in soccer one player hit the ball, then waited for the other team to hit the ball and so on, that's not how anything in the world works. Point of attack 2 is set in modern time, but there is also a ww2 game that is the same, but with ww2 units, instead of the modern ones, if I remember correctly its called Tigers unleashed. Also they have a map editor, so loads of units, complex penetration system, map editor, the only problem is the learning curve and the interface, at least one of them is way too complicated, I think that both are, so to enjoy it you have to put hours to even learn the basics, but again, once you do, its really rewarding.

[Blond_Knight]

I cannot discourage interest in Point of Attack 2 enough. That is the clunkiest, buggiest junk Ive ever seen.
Also their map editor is a seperate purchase (ADC 2).

[aaatoysandmore]

What about Battle Academy and Battle Academy II?

[zasgard]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

What about Battle Academy and Battle Academy II?

Too cartoonish for me and after playing the BA 1 demo I just don't see how accurate that game is. It seems like an arcade game more than anything else. I know it has a great following, but I got bored of the demo in a couple minutes.

[Blond_Knight]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

What about Battle Academy and Battle Academy II?

Those are really fun games, but more of a beer and pretzels variety. Think Panzer Blitz compared to Advanced Squad Leader.
Most of their editors are really simple but theirs also a scriptable part thats very powerful.
And they're both very mod-able.

[aaatoysandmore]

Did you try the "enhanced" graphics edition of SPWAW? called WinSpwaw (enhanced edition) I believe.

[zasgard]

I haven't because I'm not a huge fan of top down graphics, however, it looks like SPWaW enhanced edition might be the game that covers everything I need.

I really like the look of John Tiller games (Campaign series and Squad Battles even though they have dated graphics like SPWaW) because of the ability to have the units look 3-D, however, with Squad Battles I'd be dumping $200+ for all the games (Campaign Series is only $20)

[wodin]

Just thinking on if i's a great AI you want and aren't just after a Squad scale wargame thwen Command Ops 2 has to be pick of the bunch. You cna download the core game over at LOck n Load and then paying for the modules. It comes with three scenarios for you to try plus you cna play any user made scenarios all for free.

It's a all time classic.

LINK