Hard lesson to learn the hard way!

[Auchinleck]

Especially hard, so far into the game. I seem to have overlooked the rule about buying ships as reinforcements. Expecting them to arrive the same way Land Units, and Air Units do. By the amount of turns it says they will arrive in the production pools. But my confusion comes late in the game when I find out key ships like Advanced Carriers and Transports, have to be bought, and then more delay for Construction.

That pretty much kills any mass invasion plans I have for the Allies to breach the 'Atlantic Wall' or the invasion of Japan. I was actually getting into a Solitaire Global War more than in the past, because I made it to late 1943. Before, I would quit by late '41 because I was bored with the stalemate that seem to develop by being my own opponent. But since I kept going, I was enjoying the advancement of technology of more advanced aircraft showing up in production. One disappointment that has me wanting to start over again was me not understanding well enough ahead of time about buying plenty of Amphibious ships and Transports, only to find out they then have to be constructed before I can use them, unlike buying other units. Buying ships early in the game did not require them to be constructed. They simply showed up like regular Land or Air reinforcements. I suddenly see in late 1943 the game is showing that it will take 24 turns to build all those juicy Essex Class Carriers and Amphibious Craft, when there are only 12 turns left until the end of the game. I'm not sure I still understand that kind of delay for ship building.

[paulderynck]

You may be thinking one turn = one month, but one turn = two months. Worst case build time is 12 turns, but yes if you start late, they take a long time. Usually most players will only build Subs and TRSs(6 turns each) or AMPHs (8 turns) after JF43 or MA43 (and MA43 only if they are 10 turn CVs/SCSs).

Mind you MWiF also has an Extended Game Length option...

[Auchinleck]

It's showing time until Available as 24. What does that mean if worst case build time is 12 turns? I understand one turn is Jan/Feb etc.

[palne]

Namesake: USS Franklin (1775), named for Benjamin Franklin
Builder: Newport News Shipbuilding
Laid down: 7 December 1942
Launched: 14 October 1943
Commissioned: 31 January 1944

14 months start to finish after design work was completed....for an Essex class carrier that is 5/5 (22 months of game time). Game balance decision I suspect. The USA economy is greatly reduced in WIF, so expanding construction times seems intentional.

[palne]

@ Paul

I believe, due to turn phasing, ship construction adds 1 turn (2 months) to build times. that is a 5/5 takes 5 turns (10 months) to be built, and then is placed in the construction pool AFTER build phase. Then is built out of the construction pool 1 turn later (2 months) and arrives on the map 5 turns (10 months) afterwards. Meaning: a 5/5 takes 11 turns (22 months). True?

[palne]

AuchinlecK: Congratulations on picking up on several idiosyncrasies of the game. Yes, transports are very very important...and therefore the sinking of them is too! Keep that in mind when playing the Axis--way more important than convoys...

Sorry you learned the hard way about the construction pool....I've done that myself...I seem to remember some rules about expediting construction which is different than "build ahead" I've played wife since the 80's and still often get rules versions mixed up with house versions... But, that would be a way out of your problem, albeit an expensive way.

[alexvand]

I think the issue is that he missed that ships require two build cycles. One to get them into the construction pool and another to actually get them in play.

This is actually based on how ships were built historically. There are many instances of ships that were partially built, but then not completed, or had work on them halted. (Read the Graf Zepplin historical details for instance.)

It also reflects how much time it took to put these ships into operation.

It is also an excellent part of the game. You must plan far, far ahead in order to have the ships you need.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: palne

@ Paul

I believe, due to turn phasing, ship construction adds 1 turn (2 months) to build times. that is a 5/5 takes 5 turns (10 months) to be built, and then is placed in the construction pool AFTER build phase. Then is built out of the construction pool 1 turn later (2 months) and arrives on the map 5 turns (10 months) afterwards. Meaning: a 5/5 takes 11 turns (22 months). True?

No. FREX build a CA in JanFeb41. It arrives in the Construction pool in the replacement step of that year's NovDec41. Assuming you have the gearing aspects worked out, you then build it in the production step of NovDec41 and it arrives as a reinforcement - and useable that turn - at the start of SepOct42, 10 turns after the hull is laid down.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Auchinleck

It's showing time until Available as 24. What does that mean if worst case build time is 12 turns? I understand one turn is Jan/Feb etc.

I do not know where it would show that. Could it be you are looking at a future year force pool addition as opposed to a unit already in your force pool?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I usually have the US build carriers the first and second turns and then start on the AMPHs followed by the TRSs. I use up addition BPS with marines and paratroops. Spending an odd BP for a convoy is never a bad idea.

The idea is to only build stuff that you know you will need after mid-1941. In 1940, you will need to start on carrier air units and pilots - due to gearing up restrictions. You want to have a lot of carrier air units so any that don't 'fit' on the carriers can be left in the Air Reserve Pool. One pilot per carrier is too few, but two per carrier is too many. It all depends on the carriers and the carrier air units you have on hand.

New battleships are expensive. Even new cruisers are kind of a luxury.

You want those long range aircraft: fighters (all theaters of operations), strategic bombers (for Europe), naval air bombers (for the Pacific), and air transports (for Europe). But the aircraft can be delayed until late 1940 and the first half of 1941.

Planning builds years in advance can really help the Allies. It then becomes a question of how disciplined you are to stick with your plan. Section 3.4.9 of the Players Manual has some advice on all this. [By the way, I edited, but did not write, that section. So if it is at odds with what I have written above - don't be surprised.]

[Extraneous]

Hard lesson to learn the hard way!

During production I had a resource showing on the global map in Deli, India. Since I hade the units turned off there was no indicator why this was occurring. I figured it out it was a saved oil in Deli.

Just a warning for you when your doing production planning.

[Joseignacio]

You cannot save resources, except petrol, although you can save build points. And even in this cases, there are some rules with conditions on how can you do it, it's not completely at your like.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Auchinleck

Especially hard, so far into the game. I seem to have overlooked the rule about buying ships as reinforcements. Expecting them to arrive the same way Land Units, and Air Units do. By the amount of turns it says they will arrive in the production pools. But my confusion comes late in the game when I find out key ships like Advanced Carriers and Transports, have to be bought, and then more delay for Construction.

That pretty much kills any mass invasion plans I have for the Allies to breach the 'Atlantic Wall' or the invasion of Japan. I was actually getting into a Solitaire Global War more than in the past, because I made it to late 1943. Before, I would quit by late '41 because I was bored with the stalemate that seem to develop by being my own opponent. But since I kept going, I was enjoying the advancement of technology of more advanced aircraft showing up in production. One disappointment that has me wanting to start over again was me not understanding well enough ahead of time about buying plenty of Amphibious ships and Transports, only to find out they then have to be constructed before I can use them, unlike buying other units. Buying ships early in the game did not require them to be constructed. They simply showed up like regular Land or Air reinforcements. I suddenly see in late 1943 the game is showing that it will take 24 turns to build all those juicy Essex Class Carriers and Amphibious Craft, when there are only 12 turns left until the end of the game. I'm not sure I still understand that kind of delay for ship building.

warspite1

You should have read my second(?) solitaire AAR! [;)] I play with the Amphibious Landing rule – but simply forgot to buy any…… When that realisation hit the game - and the AAR - came to a crashing halt. But it’s a learning experience – and all part of why this game is so brilliant; incredibly difficult to master.

Two other points. Not sure what you mean by

….Amphibious ships and Transports, only to find out they then have to be constructed before I can use them, unlike buying other units. Buying ships early in the game did not require them to be constructed. They simply showed up like regular Land or Air reinforcements.

All units have to be constructed. The only exception is at the start of the game the OOB allows for the fact that a degree of construction/modernisation/training would have been underway already and so certain units are available for free (or in some cases the first part of ships building cycle is free) e.g. The early Illustrious-class carriers (construction begun pre-war), pilots (training coming to fruition) and battleships and cruisers (modernisation). These few exceptions aside, everything has to be built and that is where the player has to make tough decisions. Long term builds vs short term needs.

Re the delay in shipbuilding. I don’t think the timescales are too far off – the exception being the US of course, but ADG does not like making too many individual rule changes so the build times are probably averaged out. E.g. the French took much longer to build ships than the British, the British took longer than the US once the US industry had got into gear.