(OT) WW2 History in Your Family

[btd64]

My uncle on my mothers side of the family was a avid photographer. During the war he was in France and Germany. At the end of the war he was one of the first non-military types to enter some of the Death Camps. I remember him saying he still has nightmares about what he saw....GP

[Revthought]

My grandfather joined the USN in 1928 and retired in 1964. When he joined the navy he was 16 years old and had to lie about his age, so according to the United States government, he was a year older than he actually was for the majority of his life.

In 1940 he passed his chief machinist exam and received his commission. Early late 1941 he was serving as chief engineer on an old mine sweeper the USS Seagull in Argentia, Newfoundland. In October was very nearly transferred to the Reuben James, lucky for him his XO fought to keep him. Most of the men my grandfather served with on the Seagull were transferred and died when Reuben James was sunk by a German u-boat.

He was still on the Seaugull during Pearl Harbor and in Marchish he was transferred to the USS Kiowa, which was a fleet tug, and served as her Chief Engineer until late 1944.

In 1943 the Kiowa was mostly involved in convoy duty pulling barges. During d-day Kiowa had the job of pulling sunk landing craft, and clearing German obstacles, out of the invasion lanes. For most of June 2nd this meant doing work under constant fire from German 88s and machine guns.

At one point my grandfather's CO asked if the Kiowa could make way over a very clear German obstacle. My grandfather advised him that it was a terrible idea, but the CO decided to go for it. This resulted in the Kiowa getting a fowled propellor and becoming dead in the water--which attracted extra German 88mm fire.

My grandfather's CO (at least as my grandfather told the story) then froze and became non-responsive. My grandfather being the next highest ranking officer took command for most of the rest of the day, and while being in command engineered a fix to the fowled prop--still under very heavy German fire--and freed the ship.

The next month my grandfathers CO was awarded the bronze star for his courage under fire and saving the Kiowa when it was dead in the water near Omaha beach. Yep.

In December of 1944 my grandfather was transferred to the USS Conserver (salvage and rescue), which was in the Pacific. The did a lot of salvage and rescuing apparently. In 1945 the Conserver was with one of the first convoys into Occupied Japan.

He stayed on the Conserver until 1947 after participating in Operation Crossroads. One of his jobs here was to survey target ships for damage and scuttle them and one of his men died as a result of radiation exposure.

At the end of 1947 my grandfather turned down promotion that would have made him chief engineer of a combat ship, primarily because since 1942 he had been home no more than 3 weeks. Instead he accepted the job of CO of the power generation station on Kkwajalin and later Guam.

And that covers the 1940s! I was very close with my dad's dad. He was like a second father really, and I was devastated when he passed away in 2007 at the age of 95.

My maternal grandfather I was not close with and did not serve in the War. He was 17 when the War ended. Luckily he was an American and didn't have to suffer like so many others of his age. His dad, who was 3 years older than my paternal grandfather, was a designer at Vehicle Buick. During the war he ran the Chrysler war production campus in Whittier, California.

[geofflambert]

Rev, you did an outstanding job of keeping hearsay evidence noted as such. Good job. [&o] Distinguishing fact from what might be true is important. Also very important is recording everything without bias. We really need to hear both what really happened, what they experienced (from memory) and the stories they want to tell. I'm not implying anything in this case or any other but if it was true for them, it was true.

A local columnist reported on the plight of a veteran who remembered that float planes from Japanese submarines attacked (he, the veteran, said PH). The columnist (who is a draft GI from Viet Nam and a really good guy) thought the vet was delusional and said as much. I sent him a correction involving the attack in the Pac NW. He replied back to me that many people had written him to correct him on that, but that I was the only one who supplied him with links to the appropriate URLs.

As you may see, it's important for us to record what they saw or think they saw. We can try to sort it out later, but if we have nothing from them, there's nothing to sort out. Those of you who have moved somewhat past GO, may understand that sometimes we conflate separate memories as though they were one. No matter what, if a vet tells you a story, try and write it down without judgement, but if you have reason to qualify the vet's testimony first report it then give your own impressions, realizing that your audience can and should apply a pinch of salt (doubt).
It's not just important to record the recollections of combat veterans, but anyone having any sort of memory of that time including girlfriends and wives from the home front as well as servicemen who were in non-combat positions.

Home front witnesses, ask them 'what's up with oleo?' If you don't know, butter is better for you so stop using that axle grease. Anyways, start a conversation about that, about what they ate and where they acquired it. It's important and usually it will lead you to unexpected places.

All my relatives and friends from that time have passed. I messed up.

[PaxMondo]

Like many of us, most of my family on both sides served.

Anecdotal story from my Dad ... I've never been able to validate all of it ... but here goes what I know and what he told:


"Like many, he was an underage enlistee shortly after PH. Got through boot camp. At the end of boot camp, the battalion had a 60 mile forced march with full packs. Winner would his choice of posting, a major incentive for this era. My Dad was 2nd. They didn't tell him what second place was ... he was promoted to DI. Not what he was looking for, but that's the Army. He was stationed at Fort Ord, so at least it was pretty. Wrangled his way into an active Division (1st Cav? Not sure on this, but it was his last active duty unit.) and was on a ship towards PH when VJ day happened. "

The parts I have validated are that he was a DI assigned in Fort Ord and that he did receive a campaign ribbon (pretty sure that's the name) so he would had to have been overseas to get that based upon its definition. He qualified expert in both rifle and hand-2-hand.

I know I could dig more, but he was not all that concerned about it. By the time he passed, he had lost his badges so I filed for copies, received them, and they're with his marker back in the home town. I could get his records, but just hasn't seemed all that important. Maybe I will for his grandkids ...

[Revthought]

I trust my grandfather's story implicitly, he was never one to exaggerate or place himself at the center of stories. In fact, other than with his immediate family, he would talk about the navy, but never the war; however, since I also happen to have written my dissertation on memory (specifically the social character of memory) I'm more aware than most of the weaknesses of memory.

Plus he was a sailor, who spent his life at sea! And you know what they say about sailors and their tales. So you can never be too sure.

In any case, all I say is the story as I told it was absolutely how the events occurred in my grandfather's memory.

[GI Jive]

My father and uncle both served with the USAAF in the Pacific during WW2. Dad was an armorer with the 72nd FS and his brother was in the photo section of the 5th BG. Dad died young and he only spoke a couple of times about the war.

[Ostwindflak]

One of my grandfathers served in a Canadian parachute unit at the end of WWII. I do not know which unit that was and I know he didn't keep much of anything from that period of his life. I do not believe my father or uncle ever came across anything that said what unit he served with.

I only remember my father saying how my grandfather enlisted in late 1944, went through training with a Canadian airborne unit, completed training and boarded a troop ship for England in 1945, arrived in England, and within days VE day had been declared. He was then put on occupation duty.

My wife's grandfather who just passed away last year served in the USAAF in the Pacific from 1943-1945. He was an aircraft mechanic and from what he told me was pretty close to the front most of the time. He went through one night raid where the Japanese army was counter attacking and they shelled his airfield with mortars. He told me the only Japanese soldiers he saw from that incident were a few prisoners being marched back the next morning.

He had a lot of good stories though. Not very action packed, but fun to listen to anyway.

[Revthought]

ORIGINAL: Ostwindflak

One of my grandfathers served in a Canadian parachute unit at the end of WWII. I do not know which unit that was and I know he didn't keep much of anything from that period of his life. I do not believe my father or uncle ever came across anything that said what unit he served with.

I only remember my father saying how my grandfather enlisted in late 1944, went through training with a Canadian airborne unit, completed training and boarded a troop ship for England in 1945, arrived in England, and within days VE day had been declared. He was then put on occupation duty.

My wife's grandfather who just passed away last year served in the USAAF in the Pacific from 1943-1945. He was an aircraft mechanic and from what he told me was pretty close to the front most of the time. He went through one night raid where the Japanese army was counter attacking and they shelled his airfield with mortars. He told me the only Japanese soldiers he saw from that incident were a few prisoners being marched back the next morning.

He had a lot of good stories though. Not very action packed, but fun to listen to anyway.

M grandfather was on Okinowa shortly after the end of the campaign there, and he commented about the lack of POWs versus what he saw during the week after D-day. That always stuck out to me as an illustration of the difference between theatres for the Americans.

[scout1]

My dad was just a bit young for the conflict but my wife's grandfather spent some time with the 7th Infantry Div at Okinawa. Medical issues had him transferred later to a rear area, Tinian ... The image is likely after the war given the nose art and tail art ... but thinking most will recognize it

[Jellicoe]

Grandfather was a navigator bombaimer flying Lancasters with 50 squadron. Shot down over Hannover in October 43. Bailed out and spent the rest of the war in Stalag Luft III. Fluent german speaker so used for camp counter intelligence work during great escape. Forced marched from southern Poland to Denmark in 1945 in sub zero temperatures then liberated

Grandmother a Wren, worked in plotting rooms at Plymouth during D-Day. Among other things spent an air raid on HMS King George V and went AWOL before D-day as she and some friends fancied a trip to the beach at Falmouth. When challenged why Plymouth Wrens were in Falmouth she responded that she wasn't allowed to say and the hot footed it back to PLymouth before facts were checked!

[postfux]

My maternal grandfather got drafted in the Wehrmacht and served in Russia as an artillery man. Made it back home with his unit still intact.

When it was thought the Red Army would reach his village his CO gave him a written order that allowed travelling to the provincial capital and wished him good luck. Berlin was already fallen at this time, Hitler was dead.

He still had 15 km on foot through an area full of literally die hard Nazis trapped between the Western Allies and the Red Army, fighting for the Endsieg.

He made it to his family and sat in his farmhouse with his rifle at hand waiting for who would enter first. Some SS guys where holed up a few houses further.

It was an US soldier who entered. Offered him a Chesterfield, broke his rifle and left him sitting there.

That ended the war for my grandfather, dont know a better example of "winning heart and minds".

[ny59giants]

One grandfather was infantry with 45th Division from Sicily landing, then another at Salerno, and again at Anzio. He got hit on his left wrist (big scar) and was sent home. His division landed again in southern France. My other grandfather died when I was very young, but he was with recon unit in 6th Armored Division. He was a warrant officer, I think.

[dr. smith]

My dad was USN Pacific, think a machinist, always in the rear area. Was assigned to Admiralties for awhile and served on Guam. Was put in brig in Guam for walking around without a shirt on. He had a bunch of what looked to be small postcard pictures of ships, some of them he was on, probably most like xAPs.

Grandpop (dad's side) was in WWI, served in the trenches. Nice man, always kind to us kids.

Granddad - (mom's side) was a cowboy in the Dakotas during WWI, by the time he could make it to recruiting station, war was over. Also said to be a reason why he was all the way up in the Dakotas at the time

I'll search for and try to post those ships photos, he also had at least one of him on Guam (with shirt).

Best friend's dad served in the Army Air Corps from 1943 until the end of the war as the engineer/navigator and sometimes gunner on a B-17 in the ETO.

[Revthought]

ORIGINAL: postfux

My maternal grandfather got drafted in the Wehrmacht and served in Russia as an artillery man. Made it back home with his unit still intact.

When it was thought the Red Army would reach his village his CO gave him a written order that allowed travelling to the provincial capital and wished him good luck. Berlin was already fallen at this time, Hitler was dead.

He still had 15 km on foot through an area full of literally die hard Nazis trapped between the Western Allies and the Red Army, fighting for the Endsieg.

He made it to his family and sat in his farmhouse with his rifle at hand waiting for who would enter first. Some SS guys where holed up a few houses further.

It was an US soldier who entered. Offered him a Chesterfield, broke his rifle and left him sitting there.

That ended the war for my grandfather, dont know a better example of "winning heart and minds".

He was amazingly lucky for so many reasons! Not to live through the war, have an understanding CO, avoid the die hard nazis, avoid the Red Army, AND to avoid a POW camp.

That was probably a pretty epic journey on his part.

[Panther Bait]

My paternal grandfather and father were of ages not to be in either war. My Grandfather was born in 1904 (10-14 for WWI and 37+ for WWII), and during WWII, he was an electrician at the Boston Navy Yard working on DD/DE. My dad was born in 1940, and was in the USAF between Korea and Vietnam. So good timing all around.

My maternal grandfather was an Engineer in WWI (he worked construction in civilian life), but I don't have the unit handy right now.

Mike

[obvert]

My grandfather worked in the Kaiser shipyards in Vancouver, WA, making Liberty ships and jeep carriers. Wish I'd asked him more about it before he died.

[jwolf]

My father served in the US army in North Africa, Italy, France, and Germany. He was seriously wounded at Anzio and my grandmother got a telegram stating that "he wasn't expected to survive." According to one of my aunts (his sister) he later told her that by the time the telegram arrived he was already back in the fighting. He suffered from epilepsy -- which may or may not have been war related -- and also had occasional combat flashbacks, probably what we would call PTSD now. I didn't see the flashbacks, but my younger sister who wasn't in school yet said she was really scared when he did that. I did witness some of his grand mal seizures and that was bad enough. His health began rapidly to decline in the late 1950s and he died a few years later at age 44. My older brother has copies of his war records and medals but I don't know the details as well as I should.

[Miller]

One of my grandfathers served on a British "S" class sub, the other was in the army but was a "desk jockey".

[kbrown1950]

My father was a BAR rifleman (Marine) (I/3/5) on Peleliu as an 18 yr old and survived with a Purple Heart after being hit in the helmet and grazed by a sniper. My uncle was an Army paratrooper and also survived his battle(s) in Europe.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: obvert

My grandfather worked in the Kaiser shipyards in Vancouver, WA, making Liberty ships and jeep carriers. Wish I'd asked him more about it before he died.

I've been to the site of the Vancouver shipyards. It's condos and some waterfront restaurants now, the McMinnemans has pictures up on the wall from the shipyard. A well restored LCI is moored downstream and across the river a bit.

The males in my family have largely been fortunate enough to be the wrong age or in the wrong place to end up in wars. My mother's father's family has been in North America since the 1680s, but the only wars anyone has been in have been the French-Indian War (where an ancestor was the commander of Roger's Rangers), a minor role in the US Revolution, one grandfather who was an ambulance driver in WW I, and my father in WW II. The ancestors who were in this country during the Civil War were out west in Nebraska and Utah and were too busy surviving to deal with the war back east.

My father's father was too old for WW I and he was the youngest of his immediate family, so his whole family was out of that war. By WW II all my father's cousins were too old.

My mother had two cousins who were old enough for WW II. One had a multi-track mind, he could play the piano, read the newspaper, and carry on a conversation at the same time. He graduated high school in 1943 and got accepted to Harvard with, I believe, a deferment because of his brilliance, but he joined the Navy instead and became an officer via OCS. He was part of an advance landing party at Iwo Jima and got killed in a pre-invasion bombardment (according to my mother's story). The other cousin of age was a bit younger and he was still in flight training when the war ended. He ended up flying F9Fs from the Oriskany in Korea.

My mother's high school shortened the school year by a couple of months and graduated the girls (it was an all girls school) early so they could work in industry in 1943. My mother ended up working at the Northrop plant, which was close to home. She said her job was filing "winterization orders". She said they all looked the same, but it appears they produced such orders for each plane produced. At the time the Black Widow was just entering production and it was an open secret around the plant. They had orders that when they heard a plane they weren't supposed to look out the windows. My mother was so disinterested she didn't bother.

She had a full ride scholarship to college so I think she got out of that job to go to school in the fall. She was very happy to leave that behind her.

My father was in his second year at the Art Center School of Design in late 1941. He graduated high school in 1938, but had to work two years to save up money. He wanted to go to engineering school, but his father got him into Art Center to get him away from his mother (who was pretty nutty). One of his high school classmates was Ira Kepford who became the USN's top F4U ace. My father wanted to fly and volunteered to get into flight training. To get the requisite 2 years in, he got permission to go in after the end of his second year.

The physical showed his eyesight wasn't 20/20, he was only slightly myopic, but that was enough to keep him out of flight training. He wanted to be a fighter pilot, but I don't think he had the temperament for it. He would have made a good transport pilot though.

His second choice was the Signal Corps as his major was photography. He ended up being assigned to the First Motion Picture Unit which was making training films early in the war. Everyone in the unit had to qualify for OCS and he got an appointment to officer training, but they talked him out of taking it promising him they would take care of him. He wishes he went to officer candidate school now. He was disgusted with the way the unit was set up, everyone with Hollywood experience was given an officer rank and everyone else was enlisted, regardless of talent. He said the best Hollywood people had figured out how to stay out of the service and the officers were mostly the idiots who only worked in Hollywood when things were very busy and they were scraping the bottom of the barrel. Everyone was also given top secret clearance with a card signed by a general in the Pentagon saying that if this person gives you and order, assume it is from this general in the Pentagon.

He even appeared as an extra in a P-38 training film, I saw the clip on Discovery Channel once. I've been trying to find that clip for years to show him.

As the work on training films died down, his unit did other things. For a while he was down in Florida filming experiments for attacking bunkers from the air. He got to see the B-25G/H in action firing dummy shells into bunkers. He was pretty impressed with the damage done just from the impact alone.

He was also sent to the opening of the Bell Georgia plant which was built for B-29s. They had some early Boeing built B-29s there.

The Navy's success with The Fighting Lady got the Army chomping at the bit to make a movie of their own and half his unit was sent out to the Pacific to gather footage for a possible movie. They mounted 35mm motion picture cameras in the noses of B-25s and traveled with the 5th AF up the north side of New Guinea ended up at Tacloban. He was with the first B-25 unit at Tacloban, the only other units there were some P-38 squadrons. Richard Bong and Tommy McGuire were there when he was there and he saw them around the base.

He was reassigned to another project that was to film all the bomb runs into Japan from the Marianas. They went up in a recon B-29 loaded with cameras and bomb bays full of fuel and they would film a number of bomb runs each mission. He said the B-29 was the most comfortable plane he flew in during the war. It was quiet, no oxygen masks needed, and a lot of room to get around and stretch your legs. But the missions were gruelingly long, over 12 hours.

His unit has a C-54 assigned to it for moving men and equipment from one place to another. When flying to Saipan in the middle of the night, the pilot strayed over Truk and they got shot at. He said it was quite a light show and startled the hell out of all of them.

After Saipan his half of the unit was rotated home and the other half was to be sent to Attu. He had a lot of leave saved up and was about to take it when two days before the Attu contingent was to ship out, a lieutenant came down with a appendicitis and they needed a replacement. Only two people who had just came back weren't sick with some kind of tropical disease and my father was the only one who wasn't married, so he got tagged to go. My father thought it unfair that he, a corporal, was taking the place of a lieutenant, so he went into his CO's office and told him he's replacing a lieutenant on this trip, so maybe he should give him work of the quality they are paying him for. His CO said he knew he was too professional for that, but he would do something. My father got a field promotion to a butter bar, but while they filed the paperwork to make it permanent, the Pentagon never processed it. When he came back from Attu in September 45, they told him he could be mustered out then as a corporal, or he could go into the reserves as a lieutenant. He decided he was done with the military and opted to be mustered out as a corporal, though not before taking the three months of leave they owed him.

He took three months leave, then came back at the end of the year for one day. He and some other guys who had done similar decided that they wanted to get flight pay for that month, so they all piled into a B-25 and flew to San Francisco and back to get enough hours into get flight pay for their last month. My father got a chance to fly for a while and he was riding in the nose when they came ashore at very low level near Santa Barbara. He said they panicked a herd of cattle who stampeded and he watched the cattle disappear under the nose as they flew over them.

He has a lot of funny stories from the war, but he's only admitted the scary parts a few times. Every time they took off while sitting on the taxiway he would wonder if that day was the day he bought the farm. He's a very sensitive guy, though he won't admit it much, and I can tell a number of things still haunt him from the war. He will talk to me more than most people, but I still haven't gotten him to fully open up. He's in his twilight years now (96 a week ago) and I suspect some of his stories will go to the grave with him.

Bill