The Lost Province, 2017 Updated 1.1

[Viper81]

Hello all!

I'm new to this forum, but I've been playing CMANO for about 6 months now and I've put together my first scenario which I would be honored if you would try out. It's another modern fight for Taiwan, but with an additional emphasis on the SRBM aspect I believe is missing from many similar scenarios.
I hope you enjoy, and look forward to comments, questions, or improvements you believe could be made. Thanks!

Features:
Massed air combat
Massed ballistic missile strikes
Cruise missile/A2AD weapons vs CVBG
Close-range SSM exchanges
Heavily researched OOBs






Update 1.1:
Los Angeles SSNs and PLA ASW assets removed
B-2s given stand-off loadouts
US strike missions should now engage targets of opportunity
ROC land unit groups disbanded, all now single units





******SPOILERS******





Questions I have for testers:

Do you believe force ratios match up to make a balanced scenario? The ROC/US have more aircraft, but I believe distance and ballistic missile strikes balance them out.
Are the US SSNs necessary, or are they too tough? I had trouble detecting them in testing.
Are the Anderson-based aircraft a worthy addition? They take a long time to arrive and don't have a whole lot of impact (which is somewhat realistic and a point against actual US intervention).
What do you think of the fight against the CSG? I had the most success with ALCMs soaking up SM-6s and then DF-21s punching through the SM-3s to sink most everything.
What do you think of the post-landing ground combat?

[Dysta]

Welcome.

I will try it out soon. There are many scenarios involving with or beyond Taiwan Strait in community already, but yours might be the biggest and more dimensional than the others. I believe it can challenge my computer.

[Viper81]

ORIGINAL: Dysta

Welcome.

I will try it out soon. There are many scenarios involving with or beyond Taiwan Strait in community already, but yours might be the biggest and more dimensional than the others. I believe it can challenge my computer.

That was my intention. The others I have seen are missing the depth and breadth (especially ballistic missiles, which I love tossing) that would be present in "tomorrow's war". I pared it down quite a bit from the original vision, but even then it was unplayable until 1.11. Now I can hold a 5x time compression pretty well, which is normally all I want in such a busy theater.

[magi]

very interesting... gonna check it out....

[Kitchens Sink]

This is awesome! My CPU fan sounds like a Chinook helicopter. [;)]

[Viper81]

Another question I forgot: Do ballistic missiles damage runways? That was the thought behind including DF-15Cs with penetrator warheads, but I couldn't get them to cause any damage, nor could the other conventional warheads.

[AlexGGGG]

A problem of playing with unlimited ammo is that the opponent also has unlimited ammo. This way, targeting ammo bunkers with ballistic missiles has no effect (even when all ammo bunkers are destroyed, enemy still has unlimited ammo). On the bright side, enemy has finite SAMs and I happen to have infinite LACMs

[Viper81]

ORIGINAL: AlexGGGG

A problem of playing with unlimited ammo is that the opponent also has unlimited ammo. This way, targeting ammo bunkers with ballistic missiles has no effect (even when all ammo bunkers are destroyed, enemy still has unlimited ammo). On the bright side, enemy has finite SAMs and I happen to have infinite LACMs

The scenario is only 24 hours long so at most your H-6s are getting one reload and JH-7s two, and I found targeting hangars to destroy aircraft directly to be highly effective. I did load many of the later-ready F-16s with AIM-9s only to simulate a shortage of AMRAAMs.

[Jorm]

really fun scenario so far,
great work

[AlexGGGG]

Sub EMCON (for Providence) should be set to radars OFF. It actually went up and started emitting.

[wild_Willie2]

Pff, tried winning this scenario three times now and although I can sink the US carrier and more or less neutralize the Taiwanese air force, Kandena stays a thorn in my side and I cant really do anything against it.

Anybody have any ideas how to handle Kandena?

[Kitchens Sink]

I was getting ready to launch about 120 ballistic missiles at Kadena. Am I wasting my time and ammo? [:(]

[wild_Willie2]

lets me say this: 96 ready to fire patriot missiles....

[wild_Willie2]

I ran a test where I fired all 320 long range ballistic missiles at Kandena and these 320 missiles took out 30 Eagles and ten tankers. Then I took out the US CV with my DF-21's and fired my remaining short range missiles at either Hualien and Hsinchu for the folowing butchers bill:

5x E-2K Hawkeye 2000E
31x F-16A Blk 20 Falcon
4x Mirage 2000-5EI
6x P-3C Orion Update III

Now I only have the mirages and a smidgen of AMRAAM f-16 left to content with as fighters (and whichever carrier AC are airborne when the CV was sunk), the rest of the AC is more or less configured for ASuW strikes. I also have another 110 land based cruise missiles left over to target a remaining AF with.

This looks like a viable tactic to me.

W.

[Dysta]

Seems a bit one-sided, even under the modern military mindsets of 'superior western weaponries'.

If your computer is tolerable for more realistic and chaotic mando missile massacre, I think both Taiwan (as well as US and/or Japan if involved) and China should drastically increase the missile launching units at least quadruple than the original scenario. And also, China is still have difficulty to entirely modernize all the units in 2017, so the swarming cannon-fodder (J-7, J-8, and some low tonnage gun/missile boats) tactics may still have its use.

[AlexGGGG]

Kadena is mostly tankers. You can kill them aloft later. I did not touch Kadena at all in my first strike. However, I can't really say how it played out because I still did not finish the scenario.

[AlexGGGG]

wild_Willie2,

Since I control the precise time when to strike, I had
1. Badgers in place, all of them,
2. jammers and AEW aircraft where I wanted them,
3. SEAD aircraft all at just the edge of the enemy airspace and with engage opportunities on, so once the firing order was given, the SEAD was more or less instant
4. Whatever aircraft carries LACM, they were also orbiting
5. and 120x GLCM in flight

and all of that I delivered simultaneously towards Taiwan, starting with ballistic missiles (which I spent all in the first strike).

I now regret not having saved that, but Taiwan lost something to the tune of 100 aircraft on the ground from that first strike.

I was thinking like attacking Kadena, but then figured out I will be limited to ballistic missiles, and Patriot has antiballistic capability, so things will be not good in terms of saturation of air defenses. So I went with worrying Taiwan instead. Against Taiwan, I can have more missile density, and also I can fire some ARM missiles while SAM radars are lit up.

[wild_Willie2]

Yeah Alex, I was thinking the exact same thing. In this scenario, you have to strike FAST once hostilities commence and you have the right idea about it.
Once the US can deploy it's assets (about four hours post commencement of hostilities), it gets exponentially harder to invade the island with the available forces.
You thus have to surround the island wit strike aircraft, have an A50 shadow the US carrier TF, have your invasion TF an hour or two from landing and have your cruise missiles in the air before the first hits are made...

Realistic, no. Necessary, yes...

W.

[Dysta]

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

You thus have to surround the island wit strike aircraft, have an A50 shadow the US carrier TF, have your invasion TF an hour or two from landing and have your cruise missiles in the air before the first hits are made...

In theory, it's viable, because PLA does spent over 20 years for researching the plan for MDSA, aka multi-directional saturation attacks. Though it's still on a paper, rather than a serious demonstration.

http://www.paper.edu.cn/journal/downCou ... 11-0006-04 (PDF, English Abstract and Simplified Chinese details)

Method of Anti-Ship Missile Route Planning Under Multi-Directional Saturation Attacks

Zhang Shuyu1,Zhang Jinchun1,Li Xuemei2(1.Dept.of Basic,Naval Aeronautical & Astronautical University,Yantai 264001,China; 2.No.3 Academy of China Aerospace Science & Technology Corporation,Beijing 100074,China)

For the problem of solving global optimal solution of anti-ship missiles route planning under multi-directional saturation attacks,this paper carries out a reasonable setting of anti-ship missiles route planning under multi-directional saturation attacks.Based on the basic constraint condition of anti-ship missile route planning,establish the route planning model,which can minimum the self-control flight distance,based on this,turn the problem about anti-ship missiles route planning under multi-directional saturation attacks to the problem about solving the key waypoints of anti-ship missiles around it with plane geometry knowledge.The solving method is formulated that can ensure the routes of anti-ship missiles quickly and the simulation is made for validating it.Simulation calculation shows that the method can construct simple routes quickly for anti-ship missiles under multi-directional saturation attacks,which can be up to the requirements for multi-directional attack and beneficial to project implementation.

[Viper81]

ORIGINAL: AlexGGGG

Sub EMCON (for Providence) should be set to radars OFF. It actually went up and started emitting.

You know, I noticed that during testing and meant to fix it, but I must have forgotten. Noted for update.

Kadena is mostly tankers. You can kill them aloft later. I did not touch Kadena at all in my first strike. However, I can't really say how it played out because I still did not finish the scenario

Actually, Kadena is mostly F-15s. As mentioned, the Patriot defenses are tough, but since the 1.10 change to ballistic missile targeting, it is relatively easy to overwhelm the number of ready-to-fire missiles with 50-60 of your own, especially if you coordinate with cruise missiles. The tough part is timing the strike with attacks on Taiwan to catch all enemy aircraft still on the ground.

If your computer is tolerable for more realistic and chaotic mando missile massacre, I think both Taiwan (as well as US and/or Japan if involved) and China should drastically increase the missile launching units at least quadruple than the original scenario. And also, China is still have difficulty to entirely modernize all the units in 2017, so the swarming cannon-fodder (J-7, J-8, and some low tonnage gun/missile boats) tactics may still have its use.

That is closer to the original intention, but like I said, my computer couldn't handle the current build until 1.11. Also, a RAND study estimated China has only around 250 launchers for this range of ballistic missiles; all the rest are reloads. As such, I think it's relatively comparable (if not fair to one side or the other) now. As to the swarms of low-tech fodder, I agree, but I think that would bring my computer and many others to a complete halt. As it is now, it goes against that stereotype and tries to highlight more advanced PLA weaponry.

Back to the difficulty factor, my expectation was that it would be easier to shut down runways with SRBMs, but I never saw them even damaged. Does anyone know why this is the case?