Advice Needed! Partisans Defense and Rail Cuts/Repairs

[rainman2015]

I have played this game for more than a year, but amazingly, this is the first time a partisan has ever cut a rail line behind me. And, the result of it seems way out of proportion bad, although I may be missing something.

It is turn 9 of the campaign, and I have the one rail line being repaired thru Vitebsk to Smolensk. The partisan cut the rail line about 10 hexes behind the forward railhead, with 5 damage showing up (and the partisan counter next to the damage) when I saw the new PBEM turn.

So, suddenly, ALL of AGC, which was driving on Moscow and forward elements only 6 hexes away, instead of at the limit of their supply lines (20-25 hexes away for the HQs), are now at 29+ hexes away for the HQs as the turn starts. Ouch!

Now, this turn, supply for AGC’s units is not that bad, not sure quite frankly how they got new supply, since the HQs were over the 25 hex max when the 1st and 2nd supply phases happened on turn 9, but most units have 40% or more supply and gas Some panzer HQs had just done HQBU recently and had big surpluses, so that helped on turn 9 no doubt.

No auto-construction battalions got put on the damaged rail hex (and I have many of them with AGC which is close enough to the damaged rail hex). I think that the reason that no auto-construction battalions got put on the damaged rail hex was that a partisan was next to the hex, so if I go kill the partisan in turn 9, then I am pretty sure that AGC’s HQ will send out construction battalions to fix it (not sure though!), but that will too late, since on turn 10's logistic phase, the auto rail repair allocation and repair occurs AFTER units are supplied for turn 10, and if I don’t fix the damage, then most of AGC’s HQs will still be further than 25 hexes from a railhead on turn 10's supply phase (now two turns over the 25 hex limit, ouch!).

So, the only good alternative is to use my precious FBD and go 10 hexes BACK to fix the rail damage during turn 9 (after displacing the partisan unit with a combat/SEC type unit), but that means that my FBD for AGC is effectively losing TWO turns of rail repair towards Moscow/Tula, etc, since it has to go all the way back, repair the damage on turn 9, then come all the way back forward to where it started from, on turn 10, two turns of rail repair towards the front up in smoke! Luckily, i have my 4th FBD unit here starting to create a loop up towards Leningrad, so i can use that extra FBD to go back, but still, means two turns it is not creating a loop).

Questions:

*** How do yall deal with repairing partisan broken rail hexes? Surely, you are not interrupting forward FBD progress every time a partisan cuts the rail line behind you to send the FBD all the way back to manually repair the line, that would mean that forward repair progress would basically stall out if any consistent partisan attacks start occurring. But, relying on the auto-repair sent out from HQs, first won’t even work if the partisan is still next to the broken rail line, and second, you can’t guarantee that this will even happen as you have no control over where the HQ sends the support construction battalions. What am I missing on how to fix these broken lines?

*** How do you best protect the critical forward already repaired rail lines (especially in 41)? I am using MANY construction battalions with the AG HQs to fix the lateral lines asap, but there is still no getting around the fact that you have ONE rail line that is the ONLY one that is repaired and that is the ONLY one that is supplying an entire AG, like AGC, and if that is one line is cut, an entire AG is out of supply due to ONE partisan unit (seems way out of proportion in its effects).

*** I was reading about partisans in the older forum posts and some people were suggesting that you could build a fort unit every 3rd hex on your main rail lines to protect them from partisans, but the rules say that a partisan can ‘attack’ right next to or even IN the hex with an enemy combat unit, so that doesn’t stop them. Do any of you use fort units in the critical rail hexes to prevent attacks?

*** I could put a combat regiment every 3rd hex or so I suppose and that would at least prevent a partisan getting next to a rail line (and make it easy to go kill them when they show up), but that won’t prevent a partisan showing up a few hexes away and launching an attack on a rail hex that didn’t have a combat unit in it, or even one with a combat unit in it. Do yall put combat units every few hexes along the critical rail ines?

*** Basically, how do you prevent attacks, and how do you fix the damage after an attack occurs without messing up your forward critically needed FBD units?

Thanks!
Randy

[swkuh]

You've given a clinic on the pain "partisans" are in this phase of the war, but you didn't mention "garrisons" for key cities. As you may know, one must put security forces in such cities until you see +100% garrison (shftK to see.) This reduces partisan attacks. When you lose your rail line you'll still suffer, however, until repaired.

One strategy that may improve the use of the rail bots is to place all sorts of CBs in a security HQ and move that HQ to the most useful place. Shortens suffering. Of course, after most of the rail net is built the effects of partisans is better handled.

[rainman2015]

ORIGINAL: rrbill

You've given a clinic on the pain "partisans" are in this phase of the war, but you didn't mention "garrisons" for key cities. As you may know, one must put security forces in such cities until you see +100% garrison (shftK to see.) This reduces partisan attacks. When you lose your rail line you'll still suffer, however, until repaired.

One strategy that may improve the use of the rail bots is to place all sorts of CBs in a security HQ and move that HQ to the most useful place. Shortens suffering. Of course, after most of the rail net is built the effects of partisans is better handled.

Yes, i have all of my cities fully garrisoned except for a few at 98% (those stinking 1946 men security regiments are not quite enough for a city).

So, how best to fix the rail damage? What does everyone tend to do? Do they let their auto construction battalions fix the damage? Just tried something, and realizing that you can't keep repairing forward with your FBD anyway since the rail is cut behind him, so does everyone always just send their FBD unit back to fix the damage ASAP? As i said above, that means TWO turns will be lost in my progress eastward, one to go back and fix, another to get back to where i was!

Do people put security/infantry regiments all along the critical rail lines in 41 to stave off as much as possible an attack? Does anyone build fort units in every hex (then set theit TOE to 50%)?

There has to be an accepted way to deal with this, and i find nothing in the forums discussing it, at least not answering the questions i am asking.

Randy

[charlie0311]

Hi,

Ok, unless corrected by higher authority here are your answers.

Only one (poor) solution, send the FBD back.You understand what works and how.

The issue is known, by the "powers", they have been thinking about it.

Just started a new PBEM, all the latest, super opponent, told him I'm ok with no partisans for summer, they don't activate until you fly some in nkvd to kick butt.

He gave me the green light for partisan anyway, I won't use 'em 'til winter, want to get my butt kicked fair and square.

C

ps, all the solutions you mention, even then, no guarantee, and partisans are also recruited from the countryside, see events (sov) log,if you can. If ai game then make save before end turn. reload that when necessary to re-run sov logistics phase. That works.

[rainman2015]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Hi,

Ok, unless corrected by higher authority here are your answers.

Only one (poor) solution, send the FBD back.You understand what works and how.

The issue is known, by the "powers", they have been thinking about it.

Just started a new PBEM, all the latest, super opponent, told him I'm ok with no partisans for summer, they don't activate until you fly some in nkvd to kick butt.

He gave me the green light for partisan anyway, I won't use 'em 'til winter, want to get my butt kicked fair and square.

C

ps, all the solutions you mention, even then, no guarantee, and partisans are also recruited from the countryside, see events (sov) log,if you can. If ai game then make save before end turn. reload that when necessary to re-run sov logistics phase. That works.

Thanks Charlie

So, i DO need to send the FBD back if i want to 1) ensure that the rail line is repaired immediately and 2) ensure that it is done at all (since you can't depend for sure on the automatic construction battalion placement, once they are able to be placed there, i.e. after the partisan is not next to the hex)

Still though, how to best PREVENT this kind of cut happening to your critical rail lines, do you use broken down infantry regiments in every other or third hex even (maybe the best way to prevent this, but that will use up numerous divisions and also not protect every hex, but at least the partisan unit itself, i think, cannot then be next to the rail hex since that would mean being next to a combat unit, or can they do that also?)

Randy

[charlie0311]

partisan unit may attack any hex, even if occupied by a combat unit, lower chance, not prohibited.


Therefore the partisan must be allowed to move adjacent to combat unit. Yes, I know moving adjacent with combat units kills the partisan, not apparently vice-versa.

yes, using combat units will help, not absolutely, protect your rail lines. Here the cure is worse than the disease.

Maybe more, no for sure more, action/suggestions will appear when more players "suffer" 2 or 3 so far have noticed and posted.

You could try for night intercept with fighters, if that worked that would do it, I guess here, and it's only a guess, my guess is no way.

When a game is in permanent beta status there are going to be beta problems, and there are numerous other problems, ok, now my head hurts. I hope that others may agree that the game is now in the best shape ever, and, by a long, long way.

[morvael]

Where a security regiment was not enough to get me to 100% garrison, I built forts. I also managed to have AGN line linked with AGC line before mud. Only AGS was depending on a single line with no backups.

I would have to check garrison rules, but what if you really need 100%+ to prevent city from creating partisan units and squads? There should be very little partisans in early 1941.

BTW, that's the problem with partisans in WitE - either they are ignorable (when your rail network has many backups) or can make a whole AG go OOS. So extremes only.

[swkuh]

Interesting discussion, believe "partisans" power is developers way of telling Germans "you aren't getting there" for most of us (elite players play a different game than I.)

Can use small flak units to up the garrison strength >100% and/or Axis allies units; forts work too but cost points. Think game has significant partisans in later '41, so preparation for that is important (for me.)

morvael has it well, that outcomes are very bi-valued: if not defended then "die schwerpunkten" (excuse poor deutsch) can be severely crippled. Yes, that's unrealistic.

Better outcomes could be reductions in supply, reinforcements, replacements pro-rated by amount of partisan activity. Believe axis units that were earmarked for partisans could be kept out of the main lines and disbanded when no longer needed.

[morvael]

Forts will allow to prepare those cities for Soviet return, flak must be present on the frontlines to fire at VVS Just make sure you garrison everything to 100%. I have a lot of units tied with partisans in my game. And battles with those pesky units sometimes cost 200+ men... I may increase garrison strength of security units a bit for the next patch, so that 1/3 of a security division will be enough for a small city, and not "a 98%"

From what I heard there will be no whack-a-mole partisans in WitE2, which is great. Partisan warfare will be abstracted and no longer a binary affair.

[charlie0311]

And well, ok, AGC-AGN link near Vilnius I suppose, you still have many vulnerable rail hexes in north and center.

Garrisons won't prevent partisan recruitment from countryside.

Readers may choose house rules, as I have said many times, I'm dumb, can't get it why there would be any chance at all of partisans doing such a major disruption to the axis summer offensive.

[morvael]

No, I linked Riga - Narva - Leningrad line with Minsk - Smolensk - Moscow line through Pskov.
AGS was vulnerable with just one seaside (via Odessa and Dnepropetrovsk) line.

[rainman2015]

Still haven't really heard what is the best way to defend against partisan attack while your one rail line is still super vulnerable in 41 (and when you don't yet have a loop built out).

Should you put one regiment every other or third hex along the line? Does that do ANYthing, or do the partisans just move next to the regiment onto an unoccupied rail hex and attack there?

I suppose you could build a fort in EVERY hex, but that's nuts, or put a regiment in every hex, also nuts. And, even a hex with a unit in it doesn't completely prevent an attack, just makes it harder somehow.

The downstream effect of an entire AG being hugely supply compromised for almost 2 turns (and that is with my FBD losing 2 turns of forward movement) are just too massive to not protect the rail line somehow. But, how?

Randy

[morvael]

The chance for partisans to attack an occupied hex is reduced (but the attack is no longer fully prevented as in earlier versions). So yes, you can garrison rail line, maybe it will help.

[rainman2015]

Real newbie question, having never played the Soviets.

Does the partisan unit itself have to move into the rail hex it is attacking, or does it attack from a distance? Also, can the partisan unit move next to an enemy combat unit? I know that when an enemy combat unit moves next to a partisan unit, the partisan unit is auto attacked, but can a partisan unit itself in its movement phase move next to an enemy combat unit without triggering an auto attack?

Thanks
Randy

[821Bobo]

AFAIK partisans can attack rail hex within radius of 5 hexes.

[chaos45]

yes artificially increasing security regiments in strength to be just enough for a city would be great.....also dont think it has any real super strategic impact other than saving some AP for fort zones instead.

[Aditia]

In the War Room I posted a thread on how you can use RHG and Army HQs to more rapidly build in redundancy in your rail network. RHG HQs loaded with construction Bn's will also help repair partisan dmg.

[Icier]

I find that ensuring full strength security units are initially stationed in the captured cities
for a couple of turns seems to reduce the appearance of the partisans, if that any help.

[rainman2015]

ORIGINAL: Ice

I find that ensuring full strength security units are initially stationed in the captured cities
for a couple of turns seems to reduce the appearance of the partisans, if that any help.

I have been very careful to garrison any newly captured cities, too many of my Rumanians are stuck in southern cities now, as i sent most of the security regiments to AGN/AGC area, but they are needed there.

I like the fort idea to compensate for the 1972 men type regiments being just barely below the required strength, just built about 5 forts, but even those cities were at 98% fully garrisoned already.

Only bad thing about taking Leningrad or Moscow are the huge number of garrisons they require!

Randy

[Icier]

Well look at the bright side..it says somewhere in the rules(?) that partisans are the escapees of routing/captured units, so you must have
kicked the stuffings out of the Soviets!