Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Lowpe (J)

[Crackaces]

Quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain
Until you see supply(-) in the combat results you will not have any real success attacking. You are experienced enough as a player to know how to make that happen.



It was going pretty well until he reinforced with yet another division. Ah well. The whole idea of attacking at LA was to force him to move troops from SD to LA. He started with 3 divisions in LA and now he has 7 or 8. So I guess that was successful.

Don´t think I have enough bombers to really start hurting his supply though. Ground bombardments will have to do that.

Time to start flanking I think. I´ll leave 3-4 divisions at LA and start moving around. Basically that will force him out of LA eventually. He can´t defend LA and the clear hex east of LA.

I think I agree that simply fighting a war of attrition is not going to get what you want accomplished ...
although the use of bombers and dive bombers is not going to disable or kill squads .. it is effective at disruption and it is my understanding
disruption of a unit is a linear effect on firepower .. the horrible results you are now getting is not just the addition of a fresh division but the overall increase in firepower in that hex ..
Going around is a method of getting toward the end objective . which is to eject him from the West Coast while killing as much stuff as possible ..[8D]

[ny59giants]

Los Angeles - how many hexsides does he have control over? I would work to get control of all and keep him pinned there, if possible.

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

For any reinforcement or invasion make sure that you have a LCU or two with Naval Support. This is especially important when unloading from non-APA/AKAs and AP/AKs. Its easy to overlook when planning for invasions and I've had to reshuffle and quickly prep those units to ensure a swifter unloading.

Send a few Wildcat groups to India, if you haven't already.

Edit - Just ran my turn and identified the "Base Maint Eng Bn" and "Boat & Shore Bn" as the two you want with invasion TFs as they have Naval Support and Shore Parties.

Yep, they started arriving about a month ago. But in my eternal wisdom I decided to send them all to SOPAC.... [8|]

Ny & Jocke-

Are those naval support units labeled as "Base Maint Eng Bn" and "Boat & Shore Bn"? Or, are they labeled something else?

Jocke, when they started arriving a month ago, approximately what date was that?

Best Regards,

-Terry

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Los Angeles - how many hexsides does he have control over? I would work to get control of all and keep him pinned there, if possible.

Only the hex to the east which he entered. So if I start flanking he will have to defend the hex to the east or be cut off. He can´t do that though because he doesn´t have enough troops to defend that hex, LA and SD.

I have to be very careful though and bring enough on the flanking move to hold off an counterattack.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

For any reinforcement or invasion make sure that you have a LCU or two with Naval Support. This is especially important when unloading from non-APA/AKAs and AP/AKs. Its easy to overlook when planning for invasions and I've had to reshuffle and quickly prep those units to ensure a swifter unloading.

Send a few Wildcat groups to India, if you haven't already.

Edit - Just ran my turn and identified the "Base Maint Eng Bn" and "Boat & Shore Bn" as the two you want with invasion TFs as they have Naval Support and Shore Parties.

Yep, they started arriving about a month ago. But in my eternal wisdom I decided to send them all to SOPAC.... [8|]

Ny & Jocke-

Are those naval support units labeled as "Base Maint Eng Bn" and "Boat & Shore Bn"? Or, are they labeled something else?

Jocke, when they started arriving a month ago, approximately what date was that?

Best Regards,

-Terry

Sometime in December 42 I think. Can´t check as I´m not by the computer. They are not in vanilla though. Only DBB afaik.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain
Until you see supply(-) in the combat results you will not have any real success attacking. You are experienced enough as a player to know how to make that happen.



It was going pretty well until he reinforced with yet another division. Ah well. The whole idea of attacking at LA was to force him to move troops from SD to LA. He started with 3 divisions in LA and now he has 7 or 8. So I guess that was successful.

Don´t think I have enough bombers to really start hurting his supply though. Ground bombardments will have to do that.

Time to start flanking I think. I´ll leave 3-4 divisions at LA and start moving around. Basically that will force him out of LA eventually. He can´t defend LA and the clear hex east of LA.

I think I agree that simply fighting a war of attrition is not going to get what you want accomplished ...
although the use of bombers and dive bombers is not going to disable or kill squads .. it is effective at disruption and it is my understanding
disruption of a unit is a linear effect on firepower .. the horrible results you are now getting is not just the addition of a fresh division but the overall increase in firepower in that hex ..
Going around is a method of getting toward the end objective . which is to eject him from the West Coast while killing as much stuff as possible ..[8D]

Ah, but they will... maybe in the LA terrain it will be difficult...

Another important thing to note is that it will train up the Allied pilots. It's worth bombing just for that.

[apbarog]

My apologies. Miss-posted.

[JocMeister]

No turn or replay. Sorry guys.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

No turn or replay. Sorry guys.

He's down to 27 days in the other game.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

No turn or replay. Sorry guys.

He's down to 27 days in the other game.

Yeah, I hope the pace picks up after that...it was supposed to pick up Tuesday 3 weeks ago. Its still down to about 2 turns per week.

I´ll try to be patient until his other game is done. If the pace doesn´t pick up after that I´m going to drop the game. Can´t motivate myself to play with this pace. I feel totally disconnected from what is happening. When I open the replay I can´t even remember what orders I had given. Its like watching someone else game. After that I have to spend 1 hour going through the map trying to remember what the heck I was planning to do in the current turn.

Fun factor 2/10.

[Canoerebel]

There's no doubt your opponent is suffering from buyer's remorse. That's our term for somebody who buys something (or commits to something) and comes to regret it. Had the West Coast offensive succeeded, he'd be flipping turns at a rapid rate, not looking for reasons to postpone them. His other commitments are taking his time and he's acting is good faith, but the heart of the problem is morale.

From my perspective as an Allied player and reader, I'm hoping Jeff pays a stiff price for his failure. In other words, I hope you whip him badly now. This will benefit all Allied players in the future. West Coast gambits are fun, but if a Japanese player can engage in one, fail, and pay only a small cost, that's not much of a deterrent to keep them from trying one.

I think a West Coast gambit can succeed under certain circumstances. If I was playing a very good and experienced opponent in late '41 or early '42, I'd be worried about the possibilities. So I'd want my opponent to be "kept honest" by his realization of how bad things will be for him if he fails.

So, for goodness sake, knock the guy silly!

[RogerJNeilson]

I feel totally disconnected from what is happening. When I open the replay I can´t even remember what orders I had given. Its like watching someone else game. After that I have to spend 1 hour going through the map trying to remember what the heck I was planning to do in the current turn.

Tell me about it, one of my games is one turn per week for more than a year now, if I hadn't evolved a database system to keep track of what the hell I was doing I'd not be able to sustain the concentration. My excitement is sometimes just seeing a Chinese unit arrive at a new location! In my mid sixties its an interesting question of whether or not I shall live to see the end of the game. 500 plus turns to go means a projected finish in 2027.... maybe I will still be here though unable to remember my name and see the screen!

Roger (only partially posted in jest)

[Barb]

I hate to see the West Coast op hanging in the air for so long.
On the other hand I can see the wish to get the other game finished so one can focus on the other. Playing Japan that late in game is itself demanding as to players morale - especially with enemy ground armada on your home soil!

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There's no doubt your opponent is suffering from buyer's remorse. That's our term for somebody who buys something (or commits to something) and comes to regret it. Had the West Coast offensive succeeded, he'd be flipping turns at a rapid rate, not looking for reasons to postpone them. His other commitments are taking his time and he's acting is good faith, but the heart of the problem is morale.

From my perspective as an Allied player and reader, I'm hoping Jeff pays a stiff price for his failure. In other words, I hope you whip him badly now. This will benefit all Allied players in the future. West Coast gambits are fun, but if a Japanese player can engage in one, fail, and pay only a small cost, that's not much of a deterrent to keep them from trying one.

I think a West Coast gambit can succeed under certain circumstances. If I was playing a very good and experienced opponent in late '41 or early '42, I'd be worried about the possibilities. So I'd want my opponent to be "kept honest" by his realization of how bad things will be for him if he fails.

So, for goodness sake, knock the guy silly!

Yeah, he was flipping 1-3 turns per day steadily for a couple of months before the WC OP turned sour on him. This is kind of what annoys me the most. I mean I can certainly sympathize with him and I can give anyone a couple of days off if they feel they need it. But this has been going on for what? 2-3 months now? And despite assuring me 2-3 times now that things will soon be back on track (even giving specific dates) we are still doing about 2 turns per week.

The biggest issue for me is not the delays per see but rather that they make me almost completely lose interest in the game. Its just not fun. I don´t want to play like this. But I guess since I waited this long I can wait another month for his other game to finish.

My hunch though is that this game is already over. Very much doubt the pace will ever pick up as I think Jeff has already given up on it.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3
Tell me about it, one of my games is one turn per week for more than a year now, if I hadn't evolved a database system to keep track of what the hell I was doing I'd not be able to sustain the concentration. My excitement is sometimes just seeing a Chinese unit arrive at a new location! In my mid sixties its an interesting question of whether or not I shall live to see the end of the game. 500 plus turns to go means a projected finish in 2027.... maybe I will still be here though unable to remember my name and see the screen!

Roger (only partially posted in jest)

Well, I guess I shouldn´t complain! This game is twice as fast as yours! [:D]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Barb
I hate to see the West Coast op hanging in the air for so long.
On the other hand I can see the wish to get the other game finished so one can focus on the other. Playing Japan that late in game is itself demanding as to players morale - especially with enemy ground armada on your home soil!

Lets hope things pick up after his other game finishes then. [:)]

[Crackaces]

I hope this does continue ... My own opinion the IJ make a huge mistake with the invasion of Pearl Harbor and sealed
the deal by expending resources against the West Coast. These are resources that are needed to build bases in the DEI and on critical Atolls ..
Also the commitment to the WC has allowed you to put pressure in the East and directly on Burma .. which is going to be hard to recover from once the full ramifications of spending so much to gain so little is realized ..

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]February 1st -43[/font]
_____________________________________________________________________________

Some interesting developments...We start the day with some sweep over Butte. If Jeff had reconned he would have seen we had some fighters there. Allied pilots have a turkey shoot despite flying old outdated Buffaloes.

Morning Air attack on Butte , at 220,48

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 20

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 13 destroyed

Morning Air attack on Butte , at 220,48

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 23

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 14 destroyed

No Allied losses

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Port Morseby[/font]
_____________________________________________________________________________

Missed the screen on this one. But the action is in the PM hex. This is really a questionable move by Jeff. He is well outside practical Japanese LBA. He knew I had CVs in the area. He knows there are at least 3 Fast BBs in the area and he can safely assume there are lots more that he doesn´t know of.

He gets away today though.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 98,130

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 4
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 12

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 20
F4F-3 Wildcat x 14
TBF-1 Avenger x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed by flak
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 98,130

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 2
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 7

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 11
TBF-1 Avenger x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu
DD Hatsuzuki

Obviously he already a day late. Amphibs headed out last turn. Now Jeff has to dodge 3 fast BBs, 8 CAs, 12 CLs (including several Clevelands). Can he do it? Maybe. If I were him I would try a full speed run towards Darwin as the Allied fleet is sitting outside Milne. Then he will have to deal with the LBA at Cairns and Portland roads though...

Attack at PM failed to take the base. It will fall next attack though.

Ground combat at Port Moresby (98,130)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26965 troops, 465 guns, 563 vehicles, Assault Value = 918

Defending force 7204 troops, 52 guns, 4 vehicles, Assault Value = 145

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 319

Japanese adjusted defense: 91

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1190 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 76 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled
Guns lost 28 (3 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
193 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
27th Infantry Division
Americal Infantry Division
762nd Tank Battalion
2/4th Armoured Regiment
2/6th Armoured Regiment
198th Field Artillery Battalion
205th Field Artillery Battalion
1st Marine Defense Battalion

Defending units:
144th Infantry Regiment
33rd JNAF AF Unit
3rd Construction Battalion
24th Air Flotilla /1

[jwolf]

That looks good to take Moresby very soon. Seems like a brazen move by the Japanese to have big surface ships there with so little air protection. I think he was lucky the Mutsu didn't take a torpedo.