Holding the Philippines

[Seathom]

I am still in the process of starting my first game, which will be the campaign game as the Allies. It seems from what I've read on the forums, giving up the Philippines is part of standard play. Does anyone feel that the Allies can hold it? IRL, it certainly seemed plausible if the Americans had reinforced the area (especially with aircraft) right away as I believe they slightly outnumbered the Japanese forces.

[Chickenboy]

Seathom-

After a year's self-imposed hiatus from the game, I'm starting a game as Allies (ugh...[:(][;)]) against the AI (double ugh )

My goal is to break the AI and win the game (for the Allies) in 1942. Anything short of that is a failure for me. I'm playing scenario 1 with 'historical' difficulty.

My goal is to massively reinforce Java and hold it at all hazards. If I can get past the Japanese amphibious bonus expiration, I think I have a fighting chance.

Already, as of January 10, 1942, Soryu, Hiryu, Zuikaku, a CVE and Zuiho are gone. Kaga, Akagi and Shokaku's airgroups are shredded. I've lost Hermes. Japan is already down 1200 planes (to about 400 for the allies).

Singapore is firmly held and supplied. The AI squandered its initial attacks and is badly damaged there. I believe I can hold it through April.

Rabaul has been assaulted, but I had a chance to reinforce it beforehand. It's holding-albeit just. It is the site of numerous naval battles.

In spite of everything going well for me, the Philippines are *still* in difficulty. Mindanao has caved and Luzon only holds at Bataan, Clark and Manila. The AI attack here was also poorly organized and I've managed to beat away the daily air attacks sufficiently well to not suffer disruption.

Supply is the biggest issue, as I'm sure you can imagine. With the Sulu Sea and southern Philippines falling rapidly, there's really no way to get supply up there any more. The N. Borneo route is Nettie heaven and Kuching, Brunei and Miri are gone. The Southern Borneo route has to go past recently captured Tarakan and a heavily enemy presence at Jolo (not to mention Mindanao on that corner). It may be possible to get supply in from the East across the Philippine Sea, but I would need to sail directly into Manila harbor to unload. In so doing, I either have to go south of Formosa (and get Nettied to death) or S. of Luzon and hook up around towards the north.

In order go the southern route to Luzon, I'd have to have massive naval superiority to fend off interdiction efforts once I'm spotted. Based on the rapid dismantling of Kido Butai, this may be possible in a few months-but very risky. It's also unlikely that most other players would have this option-particularly against a more capable human opponent.

IF I can hold the Philippines, Luzon makes a perfect strat bombing base and site of interdiction against the IJN. It would easily afford me the opportunity to auto-vic the IJ in 1942. But it's oh-so-tenuous until I can get a bunch of supply (and some reinforcements would not hurt any) there.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Seathom

I am still in the process of starting my first game, which will be the campaign game as the Allies. It seems from what I've read on the forums, giving up the Philippines is part of standard play. Does anyone feel that the Allies can hold it? IRL, it certainly seemed plausible if the Americans had reinforced the area (especially with aircraft) right away as I believe they slightly outnumbered the Japanese forces.

If you can let the disorganized Philippine army regroup and work off some of it's initial disruption-this helps. Supply is critical (as mentioned above). If you can keep the level bombers off of your airfields and / or ports, you can build forts and the engineers won't be busy filling in bomb holes on the tarmac.

Having functional fighter airframes is important too. See if you can 'upgrade' one of the P-40 groups to P-39s while you have supply. You're diversifying your airframe demands that way.

Get rid of the B-17s-they're largely worthless there right now. Send them to the DEI and train 'em up. Once Luzon is surrounded, you can also get rid of the patrol planes. You don't need to keep close tabs on enemy surface ships that you can't do anything about anyways.

Clark has terrain advantages and is a great airfield for your primary fighter base. Dig deep. Manila is nice, but is 'light urban', so doesn't afford quite the terrain advantages. Hold Bataan lightly, IMO. The Japanese cannot assault it by amphibious means because of Correigador.

[BBfanboy]

You might want to have a look at Leandros' "Rookie AAR". He starts with the premise that the Allies should have put every effort into keeping the Philippines from being overrun. His strategy (based on actual war plans) was to develop a line of communication from Australia up through the Moluccas to Mindanao.

tm.asp?m=3840708

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: Seathom

I am still in the process of starting my first game, which will be the campaign game as the Allies. It seems from what I've read on the forums, giving up the Philippines is part of standard play. Does anyone feel that the Allies can hold it? IRL, it certainly seemed plausible if the Americans had reinforced the area (especially with aircraft) right away as I believe they slightly outnumbered the Japanese forces.

The Philippines were, after all, held for five months with very little assistance from the outside. Mindanao, in particular, has potential for reinforcements. The Japanese problem on the Philippines was that the same forces were planned in a row of consecutive operations. Stop it in the beginning and they are stalling. You need to keep the route through the Moluccans open. Ambon and Menado.

Fred

Fred

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

You might want to have a look at Leandros' "Rookie AAR". He starts with the premise that the Allies should have put every effort into keeping the Philippines from being overrun. His strategy (based on actual war plans) was to develop a line of communication from Australia up through the Moluccas to Mindanao.

tm.asp?m=3840708

Thank you, BB - not "every effort" - about one third of the Dutch air and naval and what was available of the Australian. Little British until after Singapore fell.

Dutch ground forces were only withdrawn to Denpasar, Bali, after Sumatra and Java for the most part were "gone".

It took many months before I "touched" Burma and China. I see now that I could have made a lot of additional problems for the opposition if I had.

Fred

[JohnDillworth]

After a year's self-imposed hiatus from the game

Really good to see you back. Something of a small Renaissance in the forums of late. I hope we can look forward to your observations on some of the AAR's. Your insight and with always added something to the discourse.

[HansBolter]

Java is not the place to hold. Southern Sumatra is far better. Less invasion beaches and Palembang is swamp terrain. I'm playing scenario 40 and Palembang just fell on September 3rd, '42.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Seathom

I am still in the process of starting my first game, which will be the campaign game as the Allies. It seems from what I've read on the forums, giving up the Philippines is part of standard play. Does anyone feel that the Allies can hold it? IRL, it certainly seemed plausible if the Americans had reinforced the area (especially with aircraft) right away as I believe they slightly outnumbered the Japanese forces.

Not against a good human player. Vs the AI, I don't know.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Seathom

I am still in the process of starting my first game, which will be the campaign game as the Allies. It seems from what I've read on the forums, giving up the Philippines is part of standard play. Does anyone feel that the Allies can hold it? IRL, it certainly seemed plausible if the Americans had reinforced the area (especially with aircraft) right away as I believe they slightly outnumbered the Japanese forces.

Not against a good human player. Vs the AI, I don't know.

It depends a good deal on the version of AI you are playing - vanilla stock AI is not good at concentrating forces to overcome resistance so when you contest one of its targets it throws in reinforcements piecemeal and often with inadequate escorts. Pax Mondo plays Ironman Nasty Nasty version and says it gives a real challenge - and he is a very experienced player.

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
It depends a good deal on the version of AI you are playing - vanilla stock AI is not good at concentrating forces to overcome resistance so when you contest one of its targets it throws in reinforcements piecemeal and often with inadequate escorts. Pax Mondo plays Ironman Nasty Nasty version and says it gives a real challenge - and he is a very experienced player.

Actually, I'm quite impressed by the AI. The way he continued to press the defenses of PM both on land and at sea. The drawn-out struggle in the Malaccan Strait, he is
just coming back again and again. Presently, he is losing his bite, May '43, but he really should with the number of airplanes and ships he has lost and the blockade of the South
China Sea and The Philippines. I agree on his often lacking in escorts. OTH, in RL, the covering escort forces were often kept in the background. I have inflicted much
of his losses by sudden attacks on his transports. Destroyers are the most efficient but it must be checked that they have their torpedo armament intact before going in.


Fred

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Java is not the place to hold. Southern Sumatra is far better. Less invasion beaches and Palembang is swamp terrain. I'm playing scenario 40 and Palembang just fell on September 3rd, '42.

I saw to withdraw Dutch forces to Denpasar, Bali, before it was too late and reinforced with Anzacs and some US. Still holding in May '43 and he has seemingly given
up. I didn't touch the British forces for a long time, resulting in reserves building up in India. I then reinforced Sabang as much as I could and he never managed
to take it. Churchill would have loved that. Sabang was his pet child but his generals never allowed it. Now the British forces are soon half-way down Sumatra.

"Hit them were they ain't."

Fred

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Java is not the place to hold. Southern Sumatra is far better. Less invasion beaches and Palembang is swamp terrain. I'm playing scenario 40 and Palembang just fell on September 3rd, '42.

Interesting observation about Sumatra being superior as a place to hold. With all due respect, I think there are a number of redoubts that can be carved out of the DEI.

Java has a number of advantages that Sumatra does not: repair shipyard, two good sized ports and airfields, two hexes of non-malarial terrain, a good port on the IO side from which to transship fuel to Australia and import troops and material, access to HQ units, etc.

We'll have to see if I can hold Java past September, 1942. I think I shall.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

After a year's self-imposed hiatus from the game

Really good to see you back. Something of a small Renaissance in the forums of late. I hope we can look forward to your observations on some of the AAR's. Your insight and with always added something to the discourse.

Nice of you to say, John. If you've been paying more attention to the real (e.g., non-Mandrake) AARs, which would you recommend I start sniffing around?

[Chickenboy]

If you have the correct assets in place, you can really take it to early Japanese aggression in the DEI [8D]

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
If you have the correct assets in place, you can really take it to early Japanese aggression in the DEI

Ouch! how did he even fit this many troops on these ships )

[Chickenboy]

I think that was an entire infantry division carried in strategic movement on xAPs. They were big 'uns. Were.

[rustysi]

Not against a good human player.

Nuf said.[8D]

[JohnDillworth]

Nice of you to say, John. If you've been paying more attention to the real (e.g., non-Mandrake) AARs, which would you recommend I start sniffing around?

Canoerebels are always good and his current one is no exception. Jockmeisters too. Both of them have moved in fits and starts but seem to be pretty steady of late

[sprior]

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