Off to see the lizard.....

[Mundy]

...

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

In the first six months you will get lots of false Intel reports on IJ subs everywhere. To help winnow out the chaff, I ignore single listings in the Intel Report (oil slick, object below surface, etc.) unless there is an actual attack made on the target hex or a line in the Ops Report says a sub is detected in the same or adjacent hex.

Thanks. Just like real life! [:D][:D]

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Mundy

Don't be swift and merciful.

NEVER! Slow but dastardly! [:D][:D]

[Zorch]

The Gorn is modding the game so he can build Godzilla after the Allies drop the A-Bomb.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The Gorn is modding the game so he can build Godzilla after the Allies drop the A-Bomb.

So after I nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki , he'll create a monster that destroys Tokyo? [X(][X(][:D][:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The Gorn is modding the game so he can build Godzilla after the Allies drop the A-Bomb.

So after I nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki , he'll create a monster that destroys Tokyo? [X(][X(][:D][:D]

So much for the other plan. It was at this point the Gorn conceived of the other, other plan. This was the turning point...

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The Gorn is modding the game so he can build Godzilla after the Allies drop the A-Bomb.

So after I nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki , he'll create a monster that destroys Tokyo? [X(][X(][:D][:D]

So much for the other plan. It was at this point the Gorn conceived of the other, other plan. This was the turning point...

Right- the last couple of Godzillas destroyed New York and LA (I think). San Fran is overdue.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The Gorn is modding the game so he can build Godzilla after the Allies drop the A-Bomb.

So after I nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki , he'll create a monster that destroys Tokyo? [X(][X(][:D][:D]

So much for the other plan. It was at this point the Gorn conceived of the other, other plan. This was the turning point...

Dinsdale?

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The Gorn is modding the game so he can build Godzilla after the Allies drop the A-Bomb.

So after I nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki , he'll create a monster that destroys Tokyo? [X(][X(][:D][:D]

So much for the other plan. It was at this point the Gorn conceived of the other, other plan. This was the turning point...

The Other, Other Plan' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygg2Kli ... gg2KlicnOQ

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve



So after I nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki , he'll create a monster that destroys Tokyo? [X(][X(][:D][:D]

So much for the other plan. It was at this point the Gorn conceived of the other, other plan. This was the turning point...

The Other, Other Plan' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygg2Kli ... gg2KlicnOQ

[Lecivius]

We all know how this is gonna end...

[AW1Steve]

Here's a question about a tactic I've not encountered before. Apparently the "Green scaly one" likes to place his subs in a scouting line , with Plane carrying subs interspersed every 3 or 4 subs. Here's the catch.....he places them between PH and the west coast , deliberately placed in that "black hole" between west coast and PH patrol aircraft max ranges. Any suggestions?

While it would be easy to "roll up the line" late in the war , it's right after December 7th I'm worried about. No CVE's , lousy ASW ratings , and a shortage of long range aircraft and even normal PBY's.

The best USN ASW ships I'll have early in the war are the APD's. I'm thinking of Clearing the sea's of shipping , saturating the sea lanes with fair ASW craft (ASW rating of "4", like PC's and Canadian Corvettes) , sending in ASW TF's of APD's , using any B-17D's and LB-30's I have , and maybe even taking one CV , loading her with nothing but TBD's(and 1 VF squadron) on asw and naval search , and using her in a stand-off support role. Whadda ya think , sirs? [:)]

[witpqs]

I've had success with carefully selecting my shipping lanes early in the war. Extra time, extra fuel, but very low losses. When you identify where he is looking for your convoys, move their routes. Aside from organic protection of convoys, concentrate ASW resources at any choke points - including the end points - that your convoys cannot avoid.

I also pay very little heed to using aircraft on ASW except maybe in very special cases and only when lots of appropriate aircraft with well trained crews are available. Instead I use naval search almost exclusively. The objective is to keep your ships floating. Sinking subs is a luxury. See the subs and avoid the subs. See the subs when you must sail through them still provides the convoys better chances.

Prefer to go where they ain't.

[BBfanboy]

You might get the odd attack on the subs and might even sink one, but you will likely lose some escort vessels. The crew experience of Allied ships stinks for at least six months, and the IJN sub commanders have much higher naval skill and aggression than the Allied ASW ship commanders. IME the AI compares the ship commander naval skill to set up the probability for each side's success, before the die roll.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I've had success with carefully selecting my shipping lanes early in the war. Extra time, extra fuel, but very low losses. When you identify where he is looking for your convoys, move their routes. Aside from organic protection of convoys, concentrate ASW resources at any choke points - including the end points - that your convoys cannot avoid.

I also pay very little heed to using aircraft on ASW except maybe in very special cases and only when lots of appropriate aircraft with well trained crews are available. Instead I use naval search almost exclusively. The objective is to keep your ships floating. Sinking subs is a luxury. See the subs and avoid the subs. See the subs when you must sail through them still provides the convoys better chances.

Prefer to go where they ain't.

Normally I would absolutely follow your advice. I totally agree with you. Here however is a difference...he's trying to figure out WHERE my shipping routes are. I'm all in favor of trying to go around him , somehow , some time, I'm going to have to make a west coast port. IF I can make it into an attrition game , where he needs 3 subs to fill every station (one on station , one coming on and one going off) then damaging one sub screws him up. Every sub I put in the body and fender shop screws up his deployment schedule just that much. Screw it up enough and either he has to scale it back , or I punch great big holes in it. I'm going to have more and better escorts coming , but he's not going to get a whole lot of replacement subs.

And of course every attack an escort makes , successful or not , gives it experience.

I'm also thinking of using a "bait force". One AK and 10 escorts. Is that gamey? [&:]

[Canoerebel]

Nothing's going to happen between Hawaii and the West Coast in 1941 or 1942 that's going to make a difference in 1944 (unless your carriers blunder into KB there). You could stand down entirely in that vicinity while setting up weird LOC routes that will drive him nuts, if he's anxious about trying to find them. Use Port Stanley or Balboa to deliver to unexpected places. He'll notice the base building if you select an island around, say, Tahiti. But then you can shift or, if late enough, orchestrate better ASW assets to hit him.

There's a desire to get things up and running as soon as possible, but it's really not necessary. I seriously think an Allied player could manage some fuel and supply deliveries to Oz and NZ while totally ignoring the creation of Pacific bases like Tahiti or Pago Pago or whatever. Then, beginning sometime in '43, with the huge construction units available, you can build those bases up and begin the fuel and supply delivery LOCs needed to prosecute the war. It's natural to think, "Well, I'll be behind, won't I?" No. Having saved so many ships from enemy attacks, you'll be more than ready to jump start logistics.

The only reason for the Allies to act proactively in '41, '42 and early '43 is to avoid boring yourself to death or boring your opponent to death, in which case he might disappear or find that real life is more fun than the game.

That's speaking from a logistics angle. From a warship angle, there are reasons to use the fleet early. If you can attrition the Kaigun at a reasonable cost, you will be making serious progress. He has a limited number of big ships, so each one you sink is one less you'll face...ever. It's fun playing an aggressive foe!

P.S. You know all these things, no doubt, but there is a instinctual need to do things that sometimes overrides the fact that you really don't need to.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nothing's going to happen between Hawaii and the West Coast in 1941 or 1942 that's going to make a difference in 1944 (unless your carriers blunder into KB there). You could stand down entirely in that vicinity while setting up weird LOC routes that will drive him nuts, if he's anxious about trying to find them. Use Port Stanley or Balboa to deliver to unexpected places. He'll notice the base building if you select an island around, say, Tahiti. But then you can shift or, if late enough, orchestrate better ASW assets to hit him.

There's a desire to get things up and running as soon as possible, but it's really not necessary. I seriously think an Allied player could manage some fuel and supply deliveries to Oz and NZ while totally ignoring the creation of Pacific bases like Tahiti or Pago Pago or whatever. Then, beginning sometime in '43, with the huge construction units available, you can build those bases up and begin the fuel and supply delivery LOCs needed to prosecute the war. It's natural to think, "Well, I'll be behind, won't I?" No. Having saved so many ships from enemy attacks, you'll be more than ready to jump start logistics.

The only reason for the Allies to act proactively in '41, '42 and early '43 is to avoid boring yourself to death or boring your opponent to death, in which case he might disappear or find that real life is more fun than the game.

That's speaking from a logistics angle. From a warship angle, there are reasons to use the fleet early. If you can attrition the Kaigun at a reasonable cost, you will be making serious progress. He has a limited number of big ships, so each one you sink is one less you'll face...ever. It's fun playing an aggressive foe!

P.S. You know all these things, no doubt, but there is a instinctual need to do things that sometimes overrides the fact that you really don't need to.

As always, you are right. I guess I was hopping that the collective genius might have found an approach that I had not. And I guess to some degree I'm frustrated that the one comment that all my opponents generally say about me is that I'm not aggressive.

Well , so be it. I'll bide my time till June or July when most of my DD's upgrade to ASW of 6+, and all of my ships will have six months of steaming experience. Studying the Allied ASW upgrades held a bit of a surprise for me. Brit DD's start at a respectable "6" and in some cases go up to "8" or even "9"! The Dutch DD's even more. And By July or August I'll have several CLAA's and fast BB's , as well as six USN CV's. And of course the hated TBD'
s become TBF's. All make a big difference.


So thanks guys! I appreciate the feedback and will incorporate it back into my OP PLAN. [&o][&o][&o][:)]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I've had success with carefully selecting my shipping lanes early in the war. Extra time, extra fuel, but very low losses. When you identify where he is looking for your convoys, move their routes. Aside from organic protection of convoys, concentrate ASW resources at any choke points - including the end points - that your convoys cannot avoid.

I also pay very little heed to using aircraft on ASW except maybe in very special cases and only when lots of appropriate aircraft with well trained crews are available. Instead I use naval search almost exclusively. The objective is to keep your ships floating. Sinking subs is a luxury. See the subs and avoid the subs. See the subs when you must sail through them still provides the convoys better chances.

Prefer to go where they ain't.

Normally I would absolutely follow your advice. I totally agree with you. Here however is a difference...he's trying to figure out WHERE my shipping routes are. I'm all in favor of trying to go around him , somehow , some time, I'm going to have to make a west coast port. IF I can make it into an attrition game , where he needs 3 subs to fill every station (one on station , one coming on and one going off) then damaging one sub screws him up. Every sub I put in the body and fender shop screws up his deployment schedule just that much. Screw it up enough and either he has to scale it back , or I punch great big holes in it. I'm going to have more and better escorts coming , but he's not going to get a whole lot of replacement subs. Why would you push IJN vessels to operate in ways/places that use less fuel?

And of course every attack an escort makes , successful or not , gives it experience. True.

I'm also thinking of using a "bait force". One AK and 10 escorts. Is that gamey? [&:] No, I don't think it is gamey.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nothing's going to happen between Hawaii and the West Coast in 1941 or 1942 that's going to make a difference in 1944 (unless your carriers blunder into KB there). You could stand down entirely in that vicinity while setting up weird LOC routes that will drive him nuts, if he's anxious about trying to find them. Use Port Stanley or Balboa to deliver to unexpected places. He'll notice the base building if you select an island around, say, Tahiti. But then you can shift or, if late enough, orchestrate better ASW assets to hit him.

There's a desire to get things up and running as soon as possible, but it's really not necessary. I seriously think an Allied player could manage some fuel and supply deliveries to Oz and NZ while totally ignoring the creation of Pacific bases like Tahiti or Pago Pago or whatever. Then, beginning sometime in '43, with the huge construction units available, you can build those bases up and begin the fuel and supply delivery LOCs needed to prosecute the war. It's natural to think, "Well, I'll be behind, won't I?" No. Having saved so many ships from enemy attacks, you'll be more than ready to jump start logistics.

The only reason for the Allies to act proactively in '41, '42 and early '43 is to avoid boring yourself to death or boring your opponent to death, in which case he might disappear or find that real life is more fun than the game.

That's speaking from a logistics angle. From a warship angle, there are reasons to use the fleet early. If you can attrition the Kaigun at a reasonable cost, you will be making serious progress. He has a limited number of big ships, so each one you sink is one less you'll face...ever. It's fun playing an aggressive foe!

P.S. You know all these things, no doubt, but there is a instinctual need to do things that sometimes overrides the fact that you really don't need to.

Recall Nimitz's orders to Spruance at Midway - the principle of calculated risk.

[Zorch]

Bbbbbbbbuuuuummmmmpppp!