Feature Request: Full Editing

[davidshq]

Hi Hubert & Bill,

I'd like to make a suggestion. I've been looking at the Napoleon mod that is being built and noticed a few times that limitations due to certain aspects of SC3 not being exposed in a way that allows modification...I'll leave it up to Kirk if he wants to outline the specific limitations he has run into.

My suggestion would be to turn SC3 into a full game editor capable of creating entirely new games...but more than that, offering the opportunity to sell the games.

I think this could be a boon for Fury Software - e.g., folks would create magnificent mods, and they could be sold with a portion of the revenue going to Fury Software. Perhaps someday some folks might even make a living off of creating new games.

In my mind the steps needed to make such a possibility a reality would include:

*Creating a method for packaging up a mod as its own stand-alone executable.
*Creating a process by which such mods could be submitted for review/approval. Since there are lots of mods, only the best should be officially sanctioned and generate revenue, imho.
*Moving additional logic out of the hard-coded areas and exposing it for manipulation to modders.

Well, those are my $.02, for what they are worth.

I've wished there was such an editor for years and it seems like SC could be that editor with a little further work.

Dave

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks for the feedback and let us know which features you'd like to see removed from being hardcoded as that will help paint us a better picture of the overall needs.

[IrishGuards]

editing sounds great, brings all different considerations into effectiveness of actions in history
would be nice to see some and get explanations
appreciate
M

[&o]

[SIPRES]

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Thanks for the feedback and let us know which features you'd like to see removed from being hardcoded as that will help paint us a better picture of the overall needs.

To "unlock" the target type of each unit (its actually greyed and cant be accessed/modified) would be great and will add more flexibility to create different units, eg for a 19th century MOD the Bomber/fighter slots are useless, but they could be use as land unit (Hard or soft)

To add for Axis/Allied minors more choice for Bitmap display eg: (8 bitmaps choice for Axis minors + 8 bitmaps choice for Allied minors).
Its not actually hardcoded, but a new feature request (something similar to the Major ID's "set display source folder")
For a WW2 game it should allow a different display for Finns, Romanians, Hungarians ect.....

[sPzAbt653]

+1 to both of Sipres suggestions. For the Minor Bitmaps, if easier for the developers there is no need to provide artwork, we can do that, bur there needs to be a way to use different unit colors for different countries. The little flags on the units are ok but not optimal [for a more pleasing map experience [:)] ].

[TheBattlefield]

Regarding the soundfiles I would suggest a editor based sound section. It would be fine to have a selection screen in which we can select a sound file and assign it to a unit/resource. The destination folder should be the respective sound folder of the active Mod campaign. This would have the advantage that newly created .ogg files could also be selected and assigned.

In the creation of an ancient war scenario, our team painfully misses a kind of "close combat" function as an attack variant. This could be activated optional in the "Advanced Game Play Options". For land units, such an attack would trigger a storm attack on the target hex of the opponent and in the best case would mean an annihilation or flight of the enemy with immediate capture of the target position. For naval units, such an attack would end in the best case with the capture of the enemy ship.

In addition, I would like to suggest an extended "SOURCE_POSITION" (Format: x,y [political_alignment] [country_id] [unit_id]) command as a trigger for a decision event.

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: davidshq
My suggestion would be to turn SC3 into a full game editor capable of creating entirely new games...but more than that, offering the opportunity to sell the games.

I also like the idea of a game development toolkit of some sort where folks who are not programmers could create their own games. Years ago I was looking for something like this. Matrix had The War Engine. There was a open-source general strategy game system called Xconq. Sadly, I found these lacking. But then I discovered SC when it first came out and saw potential there. So I started working with Hubert to help improve SC's capabilities and each iteration in the series over the past 15 years or so has gotten the game to where it is now. And there is still potential for more to come.

Anyways, SC has allowed me to create my Advanced Third Reich mod, starting back around the SC2 Weapons & Warfare version and continually improving upon it through the Patton Drives East and Global Conflict versions, and now into this current version. For me, I'm happy to help Hubert continually improve the game overall and in return I get a pretty good game with challenging AI of the old boardgame classic that I grew up playing. I'm not exactly interested in selling the mod, and based on the numbers of downloads I wouldn't make that much money off of it anyway. It is purely a hobby effort on my part and others are free to enjoy it or not.

While there may be potential for Hubert to transform the SC3 editor into more of a stand-alone game development toolkit, folks need to understand there's a tough business decision involved there between continuing game development and sales to support continued game development on one hand, versus focusing on an editor for others. For the editor option in the long run, I suspect it may not be as profitable and aspiring game developers may not get the support they want. Who knows?

My suggestion would be for folks to continue working with Hubert by requesting specific features to support their game ideas. And where features are lacking, compromise and improvise. Work with it (and it requires considerable time and effort) and have fun with it. For A3R, I've had to make lots of compromises for no unit stacking, no exploitation combat, different air and naval combat resolutions, etc. But on the other hand, SC3 offers FOW, weather, HQs and other stuff. So, I've learned to adapt and I've got a game that's close enough to what I'd like. If I more free time to actually play it myself that would be great. LOL

[Hairog]

Ability to change units "type" ie.. heavy cruiser to submarine or airship to missle.

Ability to change the MMP value of individual resources in same country ie oil Baku 20 mmp and Grosny 12.

Big second to editing unit sounds easily.

[davidshq]

Loving all the ideas folks.

[bigj2323]

The present editing of retreat possibilities is fine but should start with the subjects 1st loss rather than wait
until threshold of 5. also research advancement percentages and upgrading unit costs should be editable.

[Hairog]

Let me preface this by saying that I am playing a game with Bill Runacre. Bill almost wiped out my entire Royal Navy with a couple of submarines, three tactical bombers and around 4 Battle Cruisers. Then he invaded England and I never even saw a transport unit much less was able to intercept one. To say that I do not understand the naval system in this series is an understatement.

No offense to Hubert and Bill because the vast majority of players like the way naval combat is simulated.

But ....

I will need a way to alter the naval combat system before I can even consider creating a mod that is fought on the oceans of the world. I would not do a Pacific War mod for example.

What I would like is a system that simulates

1. the randomness of even meeting the enemy in open water
2. allows for the interception in transit of invasion craft
3. Does not allow hit and run attacks
4. Submarines cannot attack submarines. It only occurred once in WWII I believe.
5. Uses Task Forces instead of individual ships
6. Aircraft carriers can search in at least a 270 degree arch
7. If possible simultaneous movement.

I'm not asking for a World in Flames type system (which also baffles me). Something like War in the Pacific "Lite" or a non-crashing Time of Fury.

[sPzAbt653]

the vast majority of players like the way naval combat is simulated.

Just to be counted, I don't like it. So much that for the historical aspect of 653H I've been contemplating removing all naval units except Transports and Amphib's. The only thing I see that would be missing is the naval blocking of ports, which I don't think is quite historical either, so no big loss.

4. I've come across several instances where subs sank subs during WWII.
6. The Recon Move thing doesn't make sense to me, on land or sea. No recon in Cruise or Forced March seems ok, but units not using those forms of movement should always recon, I think.

[FF_1079]

The original Clash of Steel had a much simpler - and in some ways more realistic naval combat mechanic. The various oceans and seas were broken into various "zone boxes" that you moved to from port. Land based aircraft could also be assigned to a "zone box" and used for either search or attack. There were 4 slots that ships and subs could be grouped into, if there was more than one grouped into the same slot, they would engage as a group if they intercepted a target. With subs, you could put them 1 per slot, lessening the chance that they would be contacted, or gang them up, to give you better odds against a target.

There was a lot of cat and mouse thinking, and if you didn't clear a sea zone and tried to amphib invade, you were going to get roasted and lose transports.

I get the fact that the naval warfare in this is an abstraction, but I don't care for it - if I as the Germans/Italians can sink every British ship, there is credibility gap.

[Fintilgin]

ORIGINAL: Hairog
No offense to Hubert and Bill because the vast majority of players like the way naval combat is simulated.

Not sure this is true. I think it's pretty dire and was very sad that it wasn't improved on (i.e. totally thrown out and started from scratch) in SC3.

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

the vast majority of players like the way naval combat is simulated.

Just to be counted, I don't like it...

Ditto. I think the level of detail provided in the SC3 editor for all of the various unit types is great, but just because all of that capability is there does not mean that it all has to be used in a grand strategy WWII game. Sometimes less is better, like I have in my Advanced Third Reich mod; gameplay with a lower unit density of generic fleets "feels" better and appears to produce more historical results in the long run. For an operational level campaign, using more of the many different unit types makes more sense. Modders need to know what they're trying to achieve in their game (and it's just a game) and then use the editor to get there.

[TheBattlefield]

It is in the nature of the thing that in a forum discussion rather the somewhat dissatisfied or the players confronted with a problem to speak. So, just to be counted: the naval war is far from perfect, but it's a lot of fun! It is just a game and no one can customize such a project for any personal taste. For this, there is the Editor. I do not know many games that offer such a variety of possibilities.
[:)]

[sPzAbt653]

gameplay with a lower unit density of generic fleets "feels" better and appears to produce more historical results in the long run.

Hello 'pzgndr' - I have been considering the same for the 653H Mod. I was wondering if you had any advice as you already have experience in making this type of change. My general idea is to use the Carrier unit for the new Fleet units as this way Air Interdiction will occur. While this Interdiction won't occur during movement, it would occur during attacks, which is better than nothing, I think.
I also contemplate removing Convoy Lines from the map and relegating Convoys to Scripts only, which would make Sub units unnecessary. This could seem sacrilegious, but I would rather spend my game time doing things I like instead of subbing and destroyering. I'd like to see the game changed to using Convoy Units as opposed to the current lines-on-the-map, but I can't do anything about that.