Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations second standalone expansion

[JPFisher55]

Dan109 perfectly stated and described my concerns about sub behavior when it dives too deep to communicate with your forces. However, I reread the communications disruption article. It seems that subs will not lose communications unless the scenario creator writes in a LUA causing the sub to lose communications under certain circumstances. So, I'm confused. I'll have to play with the COW when it comes out and find out its sub communication rules and how they affect play.

[CCIP-subsim]

I'd just add that there's no need to worry about pre-CoW scenarios being affected. There's no reason to enable comms disruption then - the only thing you'd gain then is units going OOC due to damage to equipment (which pre-CoW means only ships/subs, in any case). So you can safely leave it off (just like you do now with things like advanced gunnery calculations or unlimited magazines now). From what I understand, too, all the new CoW-only features like this and the aircraft damage are "opt-in" for scenarios - i.e. they will always be disabled by default, unless the scenario maker chooses to enable them.


From my point of view as someone who likes to play around with scenario editing - I think it's a feature that, given the way it works now, is best used judiciously and only for a few units or situations per scenario (e.g. to model a major cyber attack). Having large numbers of units going in an out of contact willy-nilly would be very disorienting for the player.

One exception I can think of is scenarios where the player's role is as a "dispatcher" - who issues missions for units. And when these units leave base for their missions and click out, you won't know until they return/resume contact. Could be an interesting mechanic [:)]

A similar use might be "first person" missions where the player only has control of units in range/in contact of their "HQ" unit - e.g. a task force commander in a larger operation, with authority to call on any assets that enter his AoR.

We've focused on subs, I think since it's mentioned in the article itself - but to me the use of OOC mechanics is possibly least interesting when it comes to them. I would think of missions where you have to deal with it as being less about dealing with sub comms, and more about missions where you as the player are encouraged to focus on other units instead.

One more thing for scenario designers that I'd add:

Keep in mind the variety of triggers you can use and combine with each other! You can make units go in and out of contact based on entering/exiting an area; you can make them go in/out of contact at specific or random times, you can attach reference points to units (and even let the player edit them), and you can even tie radio contact to events like damage, or contact with another unit. There could be a pretty thorough doctrine set for a unit, which might stay silent except for "safe" areas; you might have units do a check-in for just a few seconds/minutes when you can evaluate it's situation and change orders, and then it'll go out of contact right after and follow it's doctrine until next short check-in. If you have a submarine sent out as a scout to locate a specific high-value unit or task force, it will stay silent when it's in contact with other enemy units and not compromise its stealth - but when it sights the target, it'll report immediately! You could even do it per types of contacts, e.g. a patrol unit meant to search for snooping unfriendly units will ignore fishing boats but report in as soon as it runs into an AGI.

THEN, on top of that, consider using Special Actions! Radio contact management doesn't have to be passive (I.e. sit and twiddle your thumbs until that pesky lost unit checks in) -in creating a scenario, you can also consider simply adding an action -just click "CALL [UNIT]" in Special Actions, and there they are!
On top of that, same goes for managing the SOP for your units. Remember that Special Actions can be used to enable or disable certain events (and vice versa). So, using those, you can allow the player to customize OOC operating procedures for units - and choose whether they want a check-in every hour, or two hours, or what kind of contacts to report, or which areas are safe/unsafe to transmit it. For the sake of realism, it can even be set up to only allow you to give those kinds of instructions to a unit while it's in contact (and not telepathically) [:)]

I realize it's a non-trivial job to create these kinds of scenarios of course, and might be a little above-spec for the average CMANO player.
I've already mentioned the idea in the "Airbase Logistics" thread, but I'll repeat it here just in case - one really great thing I'd love to see added to the editor in the future is the ability to import whole "packages" (or templates) of event logic and Lua scripts into scenarios, which would contain whole pre-made systems for things like logistics, AI behaviour and coordination (incl. integrated IADS or C3 networks), and managing this type of contact logic as well. If it were possible to simply plug a system like this into a scenario via a menu in the editor, and then customize it and assign roles to units (e.g. if you wanted to have sub comms limitations, you'd just have to select which subs you want to use it). It'd certainly be easier without learning Lua and writing perhaps hundreds of lines of scripts! Not that learning Lua is a bad thing [;)]

[Stalin46]

Such a question concerning cruise missiles. At the moment, missiles not equipped with a data link, when it leaves the area of ​​sight of our radar, are displayed on the map. With the output of DLC, what will it look like? Will the missile also be visible or vice versa, when leaving the zone of visibility, the cruise missile will disappear from the map? (Sorry for my bad english)

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: Stalin46
Such a question concerning cruise missiles. At the moment, missiles not equipped with a data link, when it leaves the area of ​​sight of our radar, are displayed on the map. With the output of DLC, what will it look like? Will the missile also be visible or vice versa, when leaving the zone of visibility, the cruise missile will disappear from the map? (Sorry for my bad english)

Unless you script them otherwise, they will behave as before.

[DWReese]

To Matrix Devs:

There seems to be much talk about accomplishing various tasks in the game through the use of Lua Scripting. For what it's worth (and maybe I am just the minority), I find that the Lua Scripting is extremely complex, and time consuming, not to mention, intimidating. I have spent several hours working on something with Lua that I expect to work, only to find out that in the end it doesn't. I finally just give up.

Again, perhaps it's me, but creating a Lua Script is not fun. It's tedious. Obviously, it is over my head. I just want to play the game, and attempting to write a Lua Script is not fun at all.

If the revised version of the game is going to be so Lua Script-dependent, as it would appear from the comments, could a dumbed-down version of Lua Scripting be created? Perhaps it could be something with drag and drop menus, or you click on a unit, and then pull up a Lua Script selection menu where a particular order can be made. But, in all honesty, typing out some long string of a Lua Script, only to end up wondering why it didn't work, isn't fun.

Please keep in mind that not everyone who plays this game is on your level. From reviewing the various USER-CREATED scenarios, not many of those scenarios have many Lua Scripts programmed into them, either. If this is any indication, then there may be others, like me, who are more than a little "intimidated" or flummoxed by the concept of Lua Scripting usage.

For example, if it is going to take Lua Scripting to be able to communicate with my subs in home-made scenarios, then my subs will be forever lost at sea. <lol>

Please simply just discard this message if you deem it to be unimportant to you.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for taking the time to read it.

Doug

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: DWReese

To Matrix Devs:

There seems to be much talk about accomplishing various tasks in the game through the use of Lua Scripting. For what it's worth (and maybe I am just the minority), I find that the Lua Scripting is extremely complex, and time consuming, not to mention, intimidating. I have spent several hours working on something with Lua that I expect to work, only to find out that in the end it doesn't. I finally just give up.

Again, perhaps it's me, but creating a Lua Script is not fun. It's tedious. Obviously, it is over my head. I just want to play the game, and attempting to write a Lua Script is not fun at all.

If the revised version of the game is going to be so Lua Script-dependent, as it would appear from the comments, could a dumbed-down version of Lua Scripting be created? Perhaps it could be something with drag and drop menus, or you click on a unit, and then pull up a Lua Script selection menu where a particular order can be made. But, in all honesty, typing out some long string of a Lua Script, only to end up wondering why it didn't work, isn't fun.

Please keep in mind that not everyone who plays this game is on your level. From reviewing the various USER-CREATED scenarios, not many of those scenarios have many Lua Scripts programmed into them, either. If this is any indication, then there may be others, like me, who are more than a little "intimidated" or flummoxed by the concept of Lua Scripting usage.

For example, if it is going to take Lua Scripting to be able to communicate with my subs in home-made scenarios, then my subs will be forever lost at sea. <lol>

Please simply just discard this message if you deem it to be unimportant to you.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for taking the time to read it.

Doug

Hi Doug

I think this is the only lua called feature and its one line of lua code or so. Please check it out and then let us know what you think.

We don't ignore anybody but measure our responses based on the post history of a user. This doesn't mean we don't listen to them though.

In a separate string let us know how we can help you with lua more. We'll see what can be done.

Thanks

Mike

[DWReese]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for responding.

I have purchased every game/update/scenario etc. that you have created. I'm quite pleased with everything that you all have done. I very impressed.

That being said, for some reason I feel a little "intimidated" by the Lua concept, etc. It realize that it is absolutely necessary, and I'm not denying that. But, if you guys(the devs), could think of a way to make it a little more user-friendly and forgiving, it might make things a little easier for me.

I don't have any suggestions, however, as to how exactly to do that other than what I previously mentioned at this moment. The idea for a easier Lua Script is merely a suggestion. It's something that could possibly be placed on the back burner for a feature date since it's obviously not a priority.

I will continue to buy anything and everything that you all make regarding the game, regardless of whether the Lua concept is easy or not. I'm just suggesting that maybe it could be re-worked from a different angle to make it more user-friendly.

BTW, I thought that you said that you were leaving. If you nixed those plans and you are actually staying that would be great. <G> You, (and everyone else) have always been very helpful.

Doug

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: DWReese

Hi Mike,

Thanks for responding.

I have purchased every game/update/scenario etc. that you have created. I'm quite pleased with everything that you all have done. I very impressed.

That being said, for some reason I feel a little "intimidated" by the Lua concept, etc. It realize that it is absolutely necessary, and I'm not denying that. But, if you guys(the devs), could think of a way to make it a little more user-friendly and forgiving, it might make things a little easier for me.

I don't have any suggestions, however, as to how exactly to do that other than what I previously mentioned at this moment. The idea for a easier Lua Script is merely a suggestion. It's something that could possibly be placed on the back burner for a feature date since it's obviously not a priority.

I will continue to buy anything and everything that you all make regarding the game, regardless of whether the Lua concept is easy or not. I'm just suggesting that maybe it could be re-worked from a different angle to make it more user-friendly.

BTW, I thought that you said that you were leaving. If you nixed those plans and you are actually staying that would be great. <G> You, (and everyone else) have always been very helpful.

Doug

Hi Doug

Appreciate it Doug. I'm leaving full time Warfaresims work once the DLC ships and it is good to go but still a shareholder in the company and doing stuff as a hobby. Its time to have fun with it!

In terms of the lua stuff I'm sorry you find it difficult but there are a large number of very productive scenario writers that use it so its definitely worth the effort. If you still feel that the lua crowd is getting things you'd like to see in a different way my suggestion is to put together a list and add it to the wish list. Everybody is pretty good on acting on a feature if it turns out to be popular.

Have a nice day!

Mike

[CCIP-subsim]

One part where I'd beg to differ is that there's a lack of community scenarios that use Lua features - I actually find that community scenarios tend to use those more extensively than the official Warfaresims scenarios. But as any trick done well, it's something you wouldn't notice very much in a well-made scenario [:)] For example, virtually all scenarios by MGellis (like Uncle Mark's Tutorials and others) use some level of scripting - they're actually what got me interested in the game's scripting!

Otherwise, this one should be pretty straightforward!
In fact, to help out - I'll happily take on writing up a "Sub contact AI template/tutorial", once CoW is out [8D]