What if Germany has Lituania?

[Giovanni705]

Hello
I am unsure to where Russian AI will deploy the first troops if Germany has Lituania, while Russia has the others baltic states. And no gain in direction of Brest Litvork. Where to put starting Germans?
Thanks for help
Giovanni

[BillRunacre]

Hi

If Germany has Lithuania then the units deploy in Latvia, so you'll be able to attack them directly from Lithuania.

[Leadwieght]

Hi Bill,

I raised this issue a while back, but then other pressing things arose:
If the Germans reject the Borders and Friendship Treaty and then take Lithuania, there is a gamey strategy they can follow:

If the Wehrmacht units are deployed right on the Lithuania-Latvia border, they will be more than 10 hexes from Warsaw and they do NOT seem to be counted as part of the 19+ units that triggers increased Soviet mobilization (Manual p. 166).

This accident of geography allows the Axis to place a LOT of units directly on the border, which seems to violate the intent of the Soviet mobilization script. I know that Soviet mobilization goes up a bit in response to the German takeover of Lithuania, but it still seems wrong to me that Stalin would not react to massive forces right on his border.

LW

[BillRunacre]

Hi Leadwieght

I did look at it but it's not going to be easy to amend, because it would mean changing the rules relating to Axis units triggering Soviet Mobilization, making things far more complicated and requiring different rules according to the decision made, whereas I've tried to make them as simple and easy to remember as possible, so I've left things as they are.

For instance, we have no simple way to handle a situation where there are lots of German units lined up along the Latvian border, but above the minimum but not too many around Warsaw. So if the overall numbers aren't too high, then we are penalizing the Axis for the exact positioning of their forces, which isn't necessarily ideal.

The key thing is though that the Axis cannot leave their eastern borders empty while they go and rampage around the rest of the map, and that restriction is still in place, in fact it's slightly more constraining here because any units placed near Latvia won't be in range to keep Stalin happy by being in range of Warsaw.

If anything, I'd rather increase the swing to the Allies if the Axis take Lithuania, but I'm not sure how big of an issue this is over the long run. Plus there is a good Allied counter strategy already in existence - if Germany annexes Lithuania, don't annex Latvia and Estonia and leave them as a nice buffer zone between the Axis forces and Leningrad. [:)]

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre
- if Germany annexes Lithuania, don't annex Latvia and Estonia and leave them as a nice buffer zone between the Axis forces and Leningrad. [:)]

Then the question still stands: Where do the northern Soviets deploy if Latvia is not under their control?

BTW, if the is no partition of Poland, the Soviets have three less named garrisons than allowed by the soft limit. Yes, these can still be built and given names but units built like that will not be eligible for a discount when rebuilding. Minor to be sure, but for the Soviets everything adds up.

[BillRunacre]

They'll deploy at Ostrov, 202,62.


In terms of the unit names, the lack of a name won't prevent them being bought back cheaply, as the rule deciding that is that unit's supply level when destroyed. But I'll see about adding some more names, thanks for pointing it out. [:)]

[IrishGuards]

ok, I see the points here, so what are the forces that latvia and estonia mobilize
for war with, as they are minors, I have never attacked either w axis ..
interesting and since the russians deploy ostrov .. hmmm
IG
[X(]

[BillRunacre]

Not a lot, they'll be quite easy to take, but the declarations of war will move the USSR slightly against you, and invading those states does buy the Soviets a bit of time. Of course, once they're out of the way you will be at the gates of Leningrad.

Of course, by not annexing the Baltic States the USSR is missing out on some pre-war production.

[IrishGuards]

the production I agree, but the % is the most important #
and with the diplomatic swings ... allies win the winter war
stalin cools his heels to the west and your production crumbles
coupled with any allied hit on finns diplomacy ..
finns dont DoW russia .. !!
IG
[8|]