Penetration of 37mm AT gun

john g · Post by **john g** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:36 am

Originally posted by G_X
Erm, sorry...I wasn't in my right mind...
Thanks for pointing that out :rolleyes: I'm not always on the ball as it were...I think 550 for a foam ball that would be about the weight of a .50 round would have a hell of a kick too, and this doesn't have quite that much, plus it's not using explosives to propell the projectile, well, not in a conventional sense.

I don't know if you are familiar with them, but during WWI several armies tried compressed air mortars for use during the night for nearly silent and flashless firing.

The Austrian 200mm model had a range of 1800 yards, not bad for firing with compressed air triggered with the mechanical valves of the period.

Other designs along this line are the Zalinski pneumatic dynamite gun and the Sims-Dudley pneumatic field gun.
thanks, John.

SkidLid · Post by **SkidLid** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 7:24 pm

Do you have any links on those compressed-air artillery pieces?They sound interesting!

john g · Post by **john g** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 12:23 am

Originally posted by SkidLid
Do you have any links on those compressed-air artillery pieces?They sound interesting!

No links, you just have to find a copy of Ian Hogg's book "Grenades and Mortars".
thanks, John.

SkidLid · Post by **SkidLid** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:29 am

Thanks for the info!

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:31 am

Originally posted by arethusa
That's 'cause I'm a new member and after reading all the newest posts, I've started at the oldest I can find and gradually reading through all of them. So even these are old to you, I've never seen them before.

I did that too when I started... though now that I know a bit more, I should probably sit down and do it again. I love it when people dig these up. New insights help, as does bringing old topics that answer common questions. ^^

Sentry · Post by **Sentry** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:21 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Graccus
I've read accounts of P-51's and P-47's bouncing .50 cal rounds off of the paved or concrete roads into the bellys of German tanks to knock them out.

Wow.......there were **** good pilots during WWII then.I shouöd try to use this trick for IL-2 Sturmovik

Voriax · Post by **Voriax** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:43 pm

Originally posted by SkidLid
Do you have any links on those compressed-air artillery pieces?They sound interesting!

Zalinski dynamite gun:
http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs1/dynamite.shtml

Sims-Dudley:
http://www.spanamwar.com/dynamite.htm

Enjoy

Voriax

Guerra · Post by **Guerra** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:04 pm

This mortar thing, 81 mm hitting bottom armor of tank, seems pretty wierd.. Mortar rounds angle when hitting ground is almost perpendicular compared to land level, this makes theory of bouncing granade pointless.

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:38 pm

Originally posted by Guerra
This mortar thing, 81 mm hitting bottom armor of tank, seems pretty wierd.. Mortar rounds angle when hitting ground is almost perpendicular compared to land level, this makes theory of bouncing granade pointless.

Yep. It's more a feature of the SP:WAW engine.

Losqualo · Post by **Losqualo** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:03 pm

Originally posted by Belisarius
Yep. It's more a feature of the SP:WAW engine.

Wouldn't SPWAW be soooo boring if it would behave like the real world :rolleyes: ?

G_X · Post by **G_X** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:54 pm

Actually, I had heard about the Compressed Air Mortars, it's kinda what gave us the idea.

Oh, and Mortars hitting a ground within close proximity of a tank, either in the front or back, would definitely score what SPWaW would consider a bottom hit, the bottom armor on most tanks, even today, is next to Nill, maybe 20mm on WWII tanks. That means that the mortar exploding very close to that would be very likely to explode with enough force to warp the steel upwards, and that's right in the crew compartment, plus the shrapnel and debris.

What's really annoying is losing a MBT to a 81mm Mortar in Modern-day Sims. Losing a T-72 to a Rifle-Platoon's Organics is sh!t.

arethusa · Post by **arethusa** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:46 am

Even without injuring the crew, warping the bottom plates in the front could cause the gearbox to jam, immobilizing the tank.

Or a blast coming up under the engine compartment in the rear could stop the engine. Diesels will stop quickly if the fuel lines get even a tiny bit of air coming in through a loosened joint. And it shudders to think about what a hit underneath a gas engine could do.

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:05 am

arethusa, that's immobilization. :p Still - how do you get a kill with a bottom hit from a mortar?

I guess this discussion is a moot point, since bottom kills with mortars are perfectly doable in SP:WAW, realistic or not.

G_X · Post by **G_X** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:09 am

81mm Mortar, hitting within two feet of the front or back of an AFV, will explode with enough force to shatter the underbelly Armor apparently.

I'm not gonna argue, 8.1cm's of Mortar exploding nearby is gonna cause a pretty big boom.

john g · Post by **john g** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 5:53 pm

Originally posted by Voriax
Zalinski dynamite gun:
http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs1/dynamite.shtml

Sims-Dudley:
http://www.spanamwar.com/dynamite.htm

Enjoy

Voriax

After reading about the Sims-Dudley, it seems to be more along the lines of a highpressure/lowpressure gun. They were a later innovation that used a small charge in a strong casing which then bled the gas into the breech of the gun slowly to launch the charge. The lower acceleration of the round allowed thinner walls for the shell and less wear and tear on the gun.
thanks, John.

Penetration of 37mm AT gun

Re: Belly hits