Wonder if wargaming just needs to lighten up some

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:51 pm

Ok I know that I despise Hasbro the gaming worlds equal to Microsoft.

But they do seem to know how to make money (even if I don't like how mostly).

Was reading my Macleans issue today, and there I see Canada-opoly. Good grief another version of that love to hate game, that every household seems to have to have in case you have friends over.
Just how many versions of that danged game are there?

But it sells, it just won't die or go away.

Maybe wargaming needs to do something like that.

No I am not talking about those &$%@#$#@# RTS games. Heck even they don't qualify really.

Best example I can point to is actually Army Men. It is so completely obviously silly, yet it is ok, because you knew it was silly when you bought it.

Some days, I wish wargaming had an answer to truely light hearted gaming. I wonder how monopoly would look like if done by the army? I wonder what the game of Life would look like if done as a military game?

Right now, we have a choice in games, either my dull tedious looking turn loving gotta have max accuracy forget playable in short time spans historically obsessed wargames. And of course we have wild free for all shoot everything that moves shooters. And the RTS arena where mouse skills are not required according to some, but it doesn't wash with me. And yes the simulators (which I sometimes forget to include).

But we just don't have a game that is clearly military, but yet also funny and definitely not so elitist that only a fan can play it.

MarkFroio · Post by **MarkFroio** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:55 pm

Les I know you know about the Panzer General Series, but don't those games fit what you're looking for? They're not really "funny", but they are fun to play. I think they are the perfect games to introduce a gamer to war games. They're easy to play and are a great way to get someone interested in wargames and WWII wargames in particular. The graphics for PG1 are dated now, but PG 2 & 3 still look good to me. (Granted I have a 16mb video card

)

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:09 pm

Yeah I have those all as well. They would likely be what I would call a border area game.

They are clearly easy to play, but still they are a world apart from Army Men hehe.

What I was thinking of, was more a game, that you could get a 100% non wargamer to play, without them saying, nah I am just not smart enough for wargames.

Up Front (the one that uses cards) is perhaps the single best example of a real wargame, that would also be able to entertain a non wargamer. I know this as I got my wife and a girlfriend to sit own and play it a couple of times with me (no small trick getting two girls to play your wargames eh).

Von Rom · Post by **Von Rom** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:37 pm

I think Axis & Allies would also qualify in this category.

Now if only the AI, graphics and editors were better, we would have a pretty good beer & pretzels game . . .

Although the board game version is still played by tons of fans. . .

Cheers!

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:17 am

Yes A&A is a good solid fun game. Computer version suffers heavily from an obvious as sin dumb AI.

Odds are the AI is no worse than the AI in most grand strategy games. But with A&A there are not many decisions to make, and they all have to be good ones. And that is very visible in the computer game.

Still the game does very well on the PC when you weed out every last AI committment. It is a fairly good online game.

Another good subject that would make a decent PC conversion if you ignored an AI requirement would be Risk 2140.
This is one of the best board games I have played in recent years. But I would expect the AI would be no better than the one in A&A.

runes · Post by **runes** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:27 am

i've always said that the best games are games where either: accuracy/realism is key or, you can do whatever you feel and blow the place to kingdom-come.

that is why games like GTA3, Unreal Tournament, or the First Soldier of Fortune kick ***. complete and utter destruction, at no cost.

whereas games like SOF2 failed, because they tried to combine the two. (like, rogue spear meets quake) and ended up coming lame.

if you're going to make a game, go all out. don't fence-sit!

we need more games where PLAYING is the point of the game.

i got a real kick out of No One lives forever (the second one to an extent but not as much) because it was campy and fun.

There used to be this old game i had on floppy disk, don't remember the name, but it was a strategy game where you would have to defend or take food, and you would use bugs (ants, fireflies, spiders, bees etc.) it was **** fun. same thing as with army men.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:52 am

I think the rise of Shooter games illustrates one valuable lesson.

A large portion of society doesn't want history served up in their game, and in some cases even realism.

I must say, I have seen a lot of shooters, and some are genuinely fun. If my system was worthy of being called a gamer's machine, I would likely not mind playing BF 1942.

You won't catch me saying anything supportive about accuracy in BF 42, but then who cares. We are talking about a game where you jump out of your burning airplane and become a rifleman until you can find something else to drive around. But if your rig can run it, it is a very fun way to get some laughs. It is the closest I have seen to the silliness of my arcade days.

But when I want to wargame, I want to swing aaaaaaaaaall the way to the other end of the scale. I would rather go from BF 42 right into ASL. I don't have any real desire for middle games. And currently I find most RTS games as poor excuses for accuracy, and not as fun as shooters.
Frankly I would love to see the industry forced to either make hard core credible wargames, or swing fully in favour of fast and furious fun.

I have not yet seen an RTS title that looks like it can remain on sale indefinitely. We have wargamers that will play the grognard software till hell freezes over, and we have the guys that will play the shooter games for several hours a day day after day endlessly.
I can't picture playing a specific RTS middle ground game with that level of dedication.

runes · Post by **runes** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:06 am

"I would likely not mind playing BF 1942."

i hated it. not because it wasn't historically accurate, but because it wasn't fun.

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:27 am

Yup..BF 1942 was a real dog. Pity as it looked like a good game.

Von Rom · Post by **Von Rom** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:33 am

Originally posted by runes
"I would likely not mind playing BF 1942."

i hated it. not because it wasn't historically accurate, but because it wasn't fun.

I agree 100%.

You might like to take a go at some of the scenarios I did for SPMBT located at wargamer.com. In particular "Clash of Chariots" and "The Lions of Sinai".

You won't be bored. . .

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:41 am

I am surprised you guys don't even like BF 42 a bit actually.

The fact that I, Sarge, even say anything positive about it is out of the ordinary (just ask hehe).

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:03 am

If you want to inject some fun into wargames....why not cross the "Sims" with a QuaterMaster (Supply Sargent)

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:06 am

Either you have not seen the post where I mentioned it already Dave, or you need as much help as me heheh.

I have already gone out on a limb and pondered what it would be like to see a module for The Sims made for us military types hehe.

Instead of a "neighbourhood", it would be a military base hehe.

I think a few US bases would be ideal for this. The first that entered my mind was the snake eaters camp hehe.

Von Rom · Post by **Von Rom** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:24 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Either you have not seen the post where I mentioned it already Dave, or you need as much help as me heheh.

I have already gone out on a limb and pondered what it would be like to see a module for The Sims made for us military types hehe.

Instead of a "neighbourhood", it would be a military base hehe.

I think a few US bases would be ideal for this. The first that entered my mind was the snake eaters camp hehe.

That would be hilarious.

You better copyright this idea Les. . . hehe

I could imagine some of the clowns in the outfit too. . . the DI yelling his head off. . .

I can imagine some of the spin-offs:

1) Army Base Tycoon

2) Total War: Living with the Grunts

3) Age of Empires: Eight Weeks in Boot Camp

4) The Operational Art of Close Order Drill

5) Close Combat: The Route March

6) Combat Mission: AWOL

7) Sid Meier's Gold Edition combining "Kitchen Detail" and "Obstacle Course" on two CDs.

Cheers!

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:43 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Either you have not seen the post where I mentioned it already Dave, or you need as much help as me heheh.

I think I need as much help as you:eek:

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:33 am

I am not a well person hehe, as it goes, I have already combined my use of The Sims and Simcity 4 so that I can have Sailormoon as the mayor of my weird city hehe.

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:57 pm

Here is an idea for a game along the lines you described Les:

Marines in Action: Mod#1 Night Raid on the Nurse's Quarters

Marines in Action: Mod #2: Infiltrating the British Marines' Rum Storage

You can add any other mod ideas you might have.

:D

Eric Maietta

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:43 pm

Lots of potential for programmers out there eh, wonder if I should actually pursue any of these suggestions. Can't be any worse than some games I have seen that are meant to be taken serious hehe.

Voriax · Post by **Voriax** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:00 pm

Originally posted by runes

There used to be this old game i had on floppy disk, don't remember the name, but it was a strategy game where you would have to defend or take food, and you would use bugs (ants, fireflies, spiders, bees etc.) it was **** fun. same thing as with army men.

Battle Bugs. You can get it from Underdogs

Voriax

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:01 pm

Hey, if a game called Leisure Suit Larry can sell, anything can!:rolleyes:

Eric Maietta