What is your favourite war movie? And the worst?

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:31 pm

A bad movie about a great subject and with a great star, 'MacArthur' with Gregory Peck in the title role, funded by the 'reverend' Moon. Maybe that's why it was so bad. :p

Eric Maietta

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:35 pm

Moon made that? now that is truely weird sounding.

Ian Packham · Post by **Ian Packham** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:56 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
As far as I know, and my knowledge of the Doolittle raid is not extensive, the B-25s launched from carriers with lightened loads.

They bombed targets within cities made ultimately of entirely burnable construction. This was done early in the war long before the US had their act together where bombing was concerned. And I highly doubt the raid was intended to be more than a morale based action.

As for intended targets, hmmm, a light loaded B-25 flying over Tokyo is more a show of defiance, than a particularly accurate or efficient means of strategic bombing.
I think they would have picked military targets, but hmm do you reeeeeeally think the US forces of the time had the slightest concern that some "innocent" casualties might ensue?

For those wishing to further examine history from a proper perspective, you might wish to locate the Why We Fight series done by Frank Capra specifically for the US public during the war. I just recently picked it up (it's sold as 2 separate dvd purchases and is a 7 volume set) to replace my vhs set.

In WW2 we didn't have CNN, peace protesters acting as human shields and all the current assortment of hand wringing over killing some civilians that just happened to be in a country that was at war. Not to say no one cared at all, but no one was crying over civilian dead during the Doolittle Raid.

I agree entirely, my point was more what the heck was it doing in a movie titled Pearl Harbor? And my other point is that in a film made in the 21st century, it would be nice think we can be balanced and at least acknowledge the casualities on the Japanese side.

It was just Hollywood pultz from start to finish.

Oakfed · Post by **Oakfed** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:11 pm

There's a couple foreign anti-war war films I'm fond of that I thought deserved to be mentioned...

'The Bridge' is a German film about a band of youths called up late in the war; when their unit is sent to the front, they are dispatched to a 'safe' spot, to 'guard' the eponymous bridge (which has been wired for demolition by an engineer detachment and doesn't really need guarding.). Ends in a nicely-done skirmish with an American patrol.

'The Fires on the Plain' is a Japanese film about Japanese soldiers trapped in the Phillipines by advancing Americans and Phillipino irregulars. It's viewpoint character is a misfit with a wonderfully hangdog visage. It has one of my favorite scenes of all time:

The Japanese are trying to march to a spot where they hope to be picked up by a submarine. A column of ragged soldiers is slogging along a muddy road under a torrential downpour. The camera is focused on a pair of discarded boots at the side of the road. Occasionally one soldier tries out the boots and trades them for his own, and the boots get progressively shabbier, until the last soldier finds little more than scraps...

The tone of the movie becomes more over the top as it goes along, ending in a grotesque set of scenes that are sort of like 'Treasure of the Sierra Madre' with food instead of gold. The fires of the title are harvest fires that are reminders of food out-of-reach due to the guerrilas.

Oakfed

Raindog101 · Post by **Raindog101** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:33 pm

Best:

The Purple Heart
The Steel Helmet
Pork Chop Hill
Attack!
The Bridge on the River Kwai
Gunga Din
Hamburger Hill
The Wild Geese
The Red Badge of Courage (Audie Murphy ver)
Pride of the Marines
Heaven Knows, Mister Allison
A Guy Named Joe
A Walk in the Sun
Dogs of War
& The Great Escape

I don't care if the tanks or aircraft are jerry-rigged or not. ITS gotta have a story.

If you dont care who dies, then the film has failed. This is the reason that:

Worst:

Blackhawk Down
We Were Soldiers...(GREAAAT Book though)
and most recent special effect extravaganza's.

Raindog101 · Post by **Raindog101** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:41 pm

Originally posted by Max VonLoben
I really liked the book. It was written by James Jones. You can find it here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 42-3204715

I understand the point the movie is trying to make. Maybe if I had seen the movie first and then read the book, I would think differently. The book is pretty much anti-war also. I just liked the way Jones gets his point across.

For example, in the book, I think the natives of Guadalcanal are mentioned once or twice, if at all. In the movie, they have a large role. Now I understand the symbolism that Malick used with the natives in the movie, but this wasn't a theme that Jones focused on in the book. Jones wrote about the horrors of war, and as you read his book, I think you can feel what he's writing about. I know Malick was trying to show us the horrors of war also. It's just that I feel Jones did a much better job with the book. I believe that Malick made his own movie with his own vision, and it had very little to do with Jones' classic book.

"The Thin Red Line" IS one of the best books about jungle combat ever written. James Jones was in the battle of the Canal.

It was part of the the "From Here to Eternity" trilogy.

I'm drawing a blank on the 3rd book of the trilogy, do you know what it is? "Go to the Widowmaker"?

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:00 pm

I guess part of our appreciation comes from "statements".

I for instance, only listen to music with "positive" lyrics, because if I want to make a "political statement", I will have a gun in my hand, not a microphone. As a result, I have nothing at all nice to say about rap music. I find it all uniformly angry and hostile sounding. Not at all what I want to hear when I am trying to "relax".

War movies are the same I would say. Therefore I will no doubt dislike war movies instantly if they fail in some areas.

I thought TRL was a WW2 movie being used as a tool to promote modern political thinking. As such, I found it ruined whatever message it was trying to give. That, and I usually don't want a political message in my movie in the first place.

I must say, with Saving Private Ryan, what I had to like the most was the Omaha Beach scene in the opening. Yes the rest of the film tended to be a bit less quality than the opener. But I will not forget the way the opener stunned and even horrified the audience.
I don't often get to see idiotic audiences that really DON'T know the true horrors of war, shown what real death dealt out indiscriminantly and violently really looks like.

It was 20- 30 minutes of shocking carnage, which I was able to notice took some time to wear of on the viewers. Good!

I think modern movie viewers have been dished out one to many films with grossly inaccurate hollywoodish "action scenes" that had to little genuine looking death and destruction.

I just watched T3 the other day. Fun film, not at all credible, but I was not really looking for credible, its an "action" movie after all.

Windtalkers for instance, was rubbish. It was a film about Nickolas Cage, oh it also has some indians in it. The action is pure garabage too. The special effects department likely has no idea what 16" naval ordnance looks like going off. Certainly has never seen a grenade go off. And it's interesting how both can look so much like an oil rig fire.

brucertx · Post by **brucertx** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:04 pm

I'm sure glad Old Eagle101 added "Pork Chop Hill"!! How could I have forgotten??
Bruce

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:00 pm

Getting away from 20th Century war films, a realy bad movie, the only bad one John Wayne did that I know of, the 1980 release, The Conqueror with the Duke as Genghis Khan. I'm sorry, but someone in casting blew it with this one. The Duke as Genghis Kahn works about as well as Martin Sheen as Robert E. Lee in Gettysburg. :rolleyes:

Eric Maietta

dwesolick · Post by **dwesolick** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:53 pm

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1

Windtalkers for instance, was rubbish. It was a film about Nickolas Cage, oh it also has some indians in it. The action is pure garabage too. The special effects department likely has no idea what 16" naval ordnance looks like going off. Certainly has never seen a grenade go off. And it's interesting how both can look so much like an oil rig fire.

I avoid Nicholas Cage movies like the plague. The only one I've seen that I thought was good (great actually) was RAISING ARIZONA. He plays a "doofus" superbly, but as for an action hero............:rolleyes:

I also have to agree that (among many other things) the Pearl Harbor film did not portray the Japanese well. You had no idea WHY they were attacking or what they were all about. TORA, TORA, TORA is still the only movie that has really gotten it right. They portrayed both sides with sympathy and accuracy. Superb.

I also give a thumbs up to the Bridge on the River Kwai (even though the treatment of POWs by Japan was softened up quite a bit for the audience). Gavan Daws ( author: "PRISONERS OF THE JAPANESE) has really told the story of Allied POWs in Japanese hands in a definitive (and unforgettable) way.

dwesolick · Post by **dwesolick** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:55 pm

Originally posted by AbsntMndedProf
Getting away from 20th Century war films, a realy bad movie, the only bad one John Wayne did that I know of, the 1980 release, The Conqueror with the Duke as Genghis Khan. I'm sorry, but someone in casting blew it with this one. The Duke as Genghis Kahn works about as well as Martin Sheen as Robert E. Lee in Gettysburg. :rolleyes:

Didn't John Wayne die in 1979?

jnier · Post by **jnier** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:34 pm

Originally posted by dwesolick
I avoid Nicholas Cage movies like the plague. The only one I've seen that I thought was good (great actually) was RAISING ARIZONA. He plays a "doofus" superbly, but as for an action hero............:rolleyes

I agree about Nicholas Cage the action hero...he really stinks. But he made several good movies (in addition to Raising Arizona) before he sold out and started making crap like Windtalkers and Face Off

Wild at Heart
Moonstruck
Leaving Las Vegas

Raindog101 · Post by **Raindog101** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:43 pm

Originally posted by dwesolick
Didn't John Wayne die in 1979?

The AbsntMndedProf "forgot" that the film was released in 1955 or 56.

The film was made near a radio-active old nuclear test site in Utah, and most of the cast and crew died of cancer.

The Duke was horribly mis-cast and has him uttering one of the most preposterous lines in moviedom:

"Yer beau-ti-full in yer wrath!

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:24 am

By saying 'getting away from 20th Century war films', I meant away from films with a 20th Century war subject, not when the film was made. I hope that clears things up.

Eric Maietta

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:54 am

I have myself found, that it is easier in a lot of cases to make a good film if the setting is actually pre 20th century, or at least pre 1950.

So much of what is post 1950 is riddled with all that makes films annoying.

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 3:28 am

I'd like to add one film classic and one film I'd like to see made:

Seargent York with Gary Cooper, and a film bio-pic of the life of Ted Williams. He was a great baseball player who gave up what arguably would have been his best years in the game to serve his country as a Marine fighter pilot. I forget who said it, but the best quote I've seen about the Splendid Splinter is "He was the man that John Wayne played in the movies.".

Eric Maietta

Mad Cow · Post by **Mad Cow** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:47 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1

I must say, with Saving Private Ryan, what I had to like the most was the Omaha Beach scene in the opening. Yes the rest of the film tended to be a bit less quality than the opener. But I will not forget the way the opener stunned and even horrified the audience.
I don't often get to see idiotic audiences that really DON'T know the true horrors of war, shown what real death dealt out indiscriminantly and violently really looks like.

I never looked at war quite the same after I saw that scene.

I just watched all of SPR the other night after I gave the rest of the movie a thumbs down. It was better than I remembered. The scenery was excellent most of the action was great, but I didn't get into much of the airborne actors as much as I did the Ranger squad. Ryan hardly comes across as being worth the sacrifice of all those Rangers. But its an excellent story, and I take back most of what I said about it earlier.

The Beach scene, though, is among the finest moments of film making I have ever seen.

One thing that always bothered me, why on earth would US Army Rangers allow an SS soldier to just walk away like that? It was like something out of the American Civil War when Confederates would parole Union prisoners and just take their word that they would be going home and not rejoining their own troops.

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:52 pm

Two things about Saving Private Ryan that make me scratch my head:

1. During the final scenes, Capt. John Miller, played by Tom Hanks, runs up to the German tank and puts his SMG's barrel through the driver's view slot and shoots up the inside of the tank. In close combat, wouldn't the German tank driver have his view port closed and be looking through a periscope-like optical device to prevent just such a thing from happening?

2. I can't recall the German tank firing its MGs at all. That just seems silly!:rolleyes:

Eric Maietta

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:57 pm

Mad Cow war brings out weird behaviour and even more weird possibilities rather easily.

The guy that becomes a hero for just taking the risk and storming the machinegun nest thus saving the squad, might be back home a genuine jerk that would not hesitate to rob you in a dark alley..

Getting into a knife fight, and trying to kill a man, only to beg for mercy when the fight conditions worsen and the tables turn, just illustrates we all react in some cases unexpectedly under stress. One moment cruel killer, the next begging for our lives as if we had not just tried to kill the other person.

Fatigue, strain, stress, blood lust, conditioning all do a lot of things to our minds that we can rarely see objectively. And it often does a lot of hidden damage too.

I am for instance greatly coloured in my actions by knowledge, that deep down, I don't really give a hoot about killing.
And that is coupled by a very deeply buried very intense anger. Which I am lucky has never gotten me into trouble.
But I yet still have no reason to know what my behaviour would be like subjected to the horrors of war.

Ryan (as I hope we all know) was a last son issue. The man did NOT want to be taken from his buddies. He did NOT want to shirk what he saw as his duties to them.
But the army doesn't allow whole families to be killed in duty period.
And orders are orders. And the order was go get this individual and bring that individual out of combat.

On the surface, one could say, why is he special. Ask his mother.

Because if no one is ever capable of being sufficiently special, then most of the reasons we freedom loving nations go to war for, have any point eh.

Life has to be precious before you can fret over losing it.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:00 pm

Prof, the view port being open could be a "stupid things happen" illustration actually eh.

Germans are allowed to screw up just like the rest of us hehe.

As for MG, they might have been out of ammo. Heaven knows, I have run out of it myself at the wrong moments

.

What is your favourite war movie? And the worst?

I am Soooo Misunderstood!