The NO HQ BU experiment (opponents welcome)

[Psych0]

And the south for T2-9, assuming you activate Rumania as early as possible...

[Psych0]

I think there might actually be a bug here to execute this rail conversion in the south. I was of the understanding that the limit is 4 hexes as the crow flies. So, that's why I drew the line from Ungeny NW to Beltsy E, which is 4 hexes from Ungeny. Even 2 further hexes along the rail line would be eligible but not enough MPs to convert those across the Rum FBD and the 4th German FBD.

Note: Ungeny is converted by the Rumanian FBD on T2 while the 4th German FBD is railed in.

Then in T3 the Rumanian FBD converts Ungeny NW and Faleshty for 9MP (1 spare). And FBD1 (starting T3 in Ungeny NW) converts Faleshty NW, Beltsy and Beltsy E for 13MP (3 spare). BUT, to my surprise I was not allowed to convert Beltsy E. Anyone know why? Is this a bug somehow?

[Psych0]

Quick update on the game with FeliceAndrea45. We reached T11 and indeed his Red Army's forward defence was very costly:
- Total Red Army losses at 3.1m of which 2.5m captured
- 423 units destroyed
- OOB of 3.6m Germans vs 2.9m Soviets
- Leningrad fell T7-8
- Moscow engaged and September left to take it

So, like this HQBU are not needed but Felix learned a lot and I expect a potential next game against him to be MUCH tougher.

Screenies to follow...

[Psych0]

Leningrad fallen and Finns advancing to Cherepovets...

[Psych0]

Inching around Moscow while waiting for the railhead to get closer (15-20 hexes away still)...

[Psych0]

Kharkov fallen and Stalino to follow soon. Railhead some 20 hexes away still as you can see...

[Psych0]

And the CP deficits of the German HQs completely minimized now...

- Total of 35 deficit on Army Groups
- Conscious 4 deficit on I Corps to have 2 stacks of 3 crack, assault divisions
- 2 temporary deficit for LVI Pz Corps / 4PzG due to Totenkopf SS Mot in regiments at the moment

[Psych0]

Overview of the games I played thus far WITHOUT HQ BU against Soviet players (and my only games against humans):
1. mitch1495 - win in T3 (resigned - super Lvov/Vinnitsa pocket demoralized him)
2. feliceandrea45 - win in T13 (resigned - Moscow and Leningrad taken)
3. sil01 - ongoing from T3 (this AAR is originally about this game - resuming soon after extended holiday break)
4. drakken - win in T6 (resigned - or maybe continuing, hopefully)
5. xalinas_slith - ongoing from T2

I feel as ready as I can be at this stage for a somewhat more experienced Soviet player, who might hand me my behind but I'm willing...

[Psych0]

ORIGINAL: Psych0

I think there might actually be a bug here to execute this rail conversion in the south. I was of the understanding that the limit is 4 hexes as the crow flies. So, that's why I drew the line from Ungeny NW to Beltsy E, which is 4 hexes from Ungeny. Even 2 further hexes along the rail line would be eligible but not enough MPs to convert those across the Rum FBD and the 4th German FBD.

Note: Ungeny is converted by the Rumanian FBD on T2 while the 4th German FBD is railed in.

Then in T3 the Rumanian FBD converts Ungeny NW and Faleshty for 9MP (1 spare). And FBD1 (starting T3 in Ungeny NW) converts Faleshty NW, Beltsy and Beltsy E for 13MP (3 spare). BUT, to my surprise I was not allowed to convert Beltsy E. Anyone know why? Is this a bug somehow?

Anyone any idea about this potential bug or shall I post it in the bug section?

[Psych0]

Not much point posting any screenies from the Drakken game, just refer to his AAR. What I have to add is my plans.

North; In T6 I just fell short to be able to cut off the rail line to Leningrad, just no MP left. With BU this would have been very different. My panzers had 25-30MP at the start of the turn in Novgorod. Infantry 12-14MP. Model's crack corps of 6 high CV divs did a good job opening up the hole which Von Manstein's LVI PzC and Reinhardt's XXXXI PzC could then deepen along the Volkhov. Next turn should see them advance the final 2 hexes to Lake Ladoga. Just a question how many units Drakken wants to / can save I think. Railhead has reached 1 hex west of Pskov this turn so only 17 hexes from my most advanced panzer (8th). I wonder if a stronger eastern flank would have halted me in my tracks, but with what units? There's always some weaker point to find on a 15 hex front unless you strip Moscow?

Center; I was offered a front of about 25 hexes from NW of Rzhev to SE of Smolensk. In places 4 units deep and mostly behind rivers. I didn't quite know what to do with it. Too big to try to envelop. Too much of a carpet to cut a piece of or to punch through decisively. I chose for the latter in a much less decisive way. Direct road to Moscow hoping to split his front in half and forcing him to move and thus be fatigued and not much dug in. 2nd PzG got near Vyazma so partial success, at least makes him react. And most infantry is at the front now, as well as the 2 PzC loaned to AGS on T1 are now back in AGC and pulling their weight at the front. Railhead has passed Polotsk this turn (NW of Vitebsk)

To be continued with thoughts on South...

[Psych0]

South; The only opportunity Drakken left me was a small front in front of the Dnepr between D and Z towns. No encirclements but to my surprise D town was empty. North of the Dnepr should give me some opportunities next turn with III PzC advancing from the Kiev pocket last turn. Railhead is 25 hexes from my spearhead so at the very limit. Have to stay patient here and take small wins as they come. I would so love to have some HQ BUs at this stage in South and Center! But that's just way too much and impossible to defend against I think.

[Psych0]

Not much interaction in this AAR, so let me ask you a couple questions to fire this up for everyone's benefit...

1) Have you tried playing without HQ BU? No, against AI doesn't count!

2) How would you approach playing without HQ BU?

3) What would you do differently from what you see me doing?

4) How would you still take Leningrad and Moscow?

I have some thoughts on these points, but let's first hear what you think.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Psych0
2) How would you approach playing without HQ BU?

To be honest this was more the question I wanted to get an answer for from you. Given the proposed changes for 1.12 this may become a requirement rather than a luxury. Or even things like motorising infantry, little used before, may become more points/trucks efficient.

There is the "poor mans" HQBU - not spending the points but moving back to where they are within 10 hexes of rail for the supply bonus, or perhaps even less? Perhaps more thought needs to be given to whether a Panzer corps should always have no more than 3 divisions in it. And use reassigns a lot more to minimise distances from HQ to unit and HQ to rail. Better leaders for better movement point ratings checks?

Perhaps you can tell us what your system is?

[Stelteck]

The unintended side effect is that you now have unlimited AP points with no real way to spend so much of them, so you can do whatever fantasy you want with order of battle, support units and general transfert and other things.

Otherwise it will probably force you to be more methodical in the advance, using more infantry to clear the enemy frontline.

Letting a panzer corps sit on railways one turn will still provide a 45+ Mp movement panzer corps.

I think it is a very interesting way to play the game, as HQBU is not the most interesting and fun mecanism of the campaign. It would be amazing to have it as game option.

[tyronec]

I am also playing a no HQBuildup game against a moderately experienced player. He has retreated a lot over the first few moves, we are now up to T7 and he is beginning to make a stand. I would expect to still take Leningrad, Moscow not at all sure yet and will certainly not make as much progress down south as usual.
Has made for an interesting game and introduced some variety - spending all the AP's on Leaders and balancing army groups etc. I think until the next patch comes out it is a very good way to play the game.
As to Axis strategy think mine has largely been determined by what my opponent has done.

[Psych0]

I will for sure share my thoughts and method but I'm interested to hear if anyone has some ideas formed already. If not, for sure I can try to contribute. Nothing magic in my method though [8|]

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Psych0

Not much interaction in this AAR, so let me ask you a couple questions to fire this up for everyone's benefit...

1) Have you tried playing without HQ BU? No, against AI doesn't count!

2) How would you approach playing without HQ BU?

3) What would you do differently from what you see me doing?

4) How would you still take Leningrad and Moscow?

I have some thoughts on these points, but let's first hear what you think.

With or without HQ buildup a "determined" German can take Leningrad. Nothing much a Soviet can do about it if the Germans commit the resources to take such an action even without HQ BU imho. The supply situation for the Germans going this way is "excellent" and not to mention freeing the Finns from "no attack zone" slavery is a must for all Good Germans.

[Dinglir]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
The supply situation for the Germans going this way is "excellent" and not to mention freeing the Finns from "no attack zone" slavery is a must for all Good Germans.

I guess that makes me a bad German...

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
The supply situation for the Germans going this way is "excellent" and not to mention freeing the Finns from "no attack zone" slavery is a must for all Good Germans.

I guess that makes me a bad German...

As for not freeing the Finns? Yes. BUT you changed direction in the middle of some really good pushes. You were not the only one either. I would have continued towards Leningrad as the German player and started surrounding Russian units even if it was just one hex stacked full. Which imho you and others needed to do. If the Germans started turn 4/5 doing this the Russian Defense would crumble either here or somewhere else because the Soviets cant keep up with unit loses this early in the game. (Soviets have a serious lack of units & if you keep it that way as the Germans you will do well) The minute you and others turned from Leningrad I knew it was pretty much safe.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
The supply situation for the Germans going this way is "excellent" and not to mention freeing the Finns from "no attack zone" slavery is a must for all Good Germans.

I guess that makes me a bad German...

As for not freeing the Finns? Yes. BUT you changed direction in the middle of some really good pushes. You were not the only one either. I would have continued towards Leningrad as the German player and started surrounding Russian units even if it was just one hex stacked full. Which imho you and others needed to do. If the Germans started turn 4/5 doing this the Russian Defense would crumble either here or somewhere else because the Soviets cant keep up with unit loses this early in the game. (Soviets have a serious lack of units & if you keep it that way as the Germans you will do well) The minute you and others turned from Leningrad I knew it was pretty much safe.

You HAVE to decide you goal turn 1 and STICK TO IT (unless something else presents itself to be an even greater prize and you are 100% sure you can accomplish it is just my 2 cents)