tyronec (Axis) vs Grognard1812. Grognard welcome.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

The air war became serious on GT3 when Tyronec used a tactic I havn't encountered before. He attacked units and
some air bases using only large number of fighters in an apparent attempt to shot down intercepting Soviet
fighters. The screen shot below shows one air battle where 126 German fighters were intercepted by 57 older type
Soviet fighters and 21 Soviet fighters were downed with no losses to the German fighters.

Not sure how to counter this tactic, as at this rate the Soviet air force will be reduced to just production levels
in a few months. Will be transferring in large numbers of more recent type Soviet fighter Air Groups (Mig3, Lagg3),
as the I-15 and I-16 fighters are not effective. Also considering changing the Air Doctrine to 'turn off ground
support' and increasing the fighter intercept from 75% to 100-200% to increase the number of Soviet fighters
intercepting the attacking German fighters. Not sure if this will just worsen the Soviet plane losses.

A tactic I learned from my 2x3 game

Recon .. see where the Soviets will intercept ..exhausting Soviet fighters 2-4 at a time ..
Do "ground bombings" (which in fact simulate fighter sweeps) with fighters only at the furthest range from the Soviets that they will intercept closest to my bases .. using staging bases
Harvest Soviet fighters ..
Once fighters are exhausted Now use bombers to clean house & attack strategic points (Note first 33% of bombers must be used for airfield attack or they will not be used for that purpose at all)

I am not sure what long term consequence of increasing interception % will be ...

[EwaldvonKleist]

A tactic I learned from my 2x3 game

Looks like Telemecus is a good teacher

@Grognard: I believe a countermeasure is concentration of the air forces. On this way there are always some fresh fighters. And don't forget the German fighters will be fatigued by those missions as well, making them vulnerable from airfield bombing.

[Grognard1812]

Thank-you, I will using your advice of concentrating the Soviet air force, HardLuckYetAgain's advice of setting
the interception for fighters to 300% and Crackaces advice of fatiguing the German fighters with multiple
recon missions, starting with GT 5.

GT 4 was again difficult for the Red Air Force with 1138 aircraft loses vs 58 for the Axis.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812
Crackaces advice of fatiguing the German fighters with multiple
recon missions, starting with GT 5.

Beware that would be more advice for an Axis player than a Soviet one. Axis have lots of recon, but Soviets do not. If the Soviet player does not want to be blind to a good Axis player they have to use their recon wisely and conservatively.

However the Soviet player does have lots of other aircraft types in abundance which they do not mind losing. Unlike recon flying unescorted, other missions can help the axis by increasing their experience and morale more than the fatigue hurts them. So you do need to chose your targets even for them more cautiously and more in combination with fighter sweeps etc.

My advice is do think about ranges of your different aircraft a lot. It is possible for each side to keep their bombers operating very well but in bases out of range of the others fighters which makes them much safer. So the only contest then would be on fighter numbers on which Axis is weaker.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

Thank-you, I will using your advice of concentrating the Soviet air force, HardLuckYetAgain's advice of setting
the interception for fighters to 300% and Crackaces advice of fatiguing the German fighters with multiple
recon missions, starting with GT 5.

GT 4 was again difficult for the Red Air Force with 1138 aircraft loses vs 58 for the Axis.

Just need to stop loosing aircraft needlessly to ground overrun ;-P.

[Grognard1812]

Soviet GT 4

Was able to use a Cavalry division on either flank of the panzer breakthrough near the cities of Dnepropetrovsk and
Zaporozhye to cut off the supply corridor to two Panzer Corps of Army Group South (2 Panzer divisions, 4 motorized
divisions and a motorized Regiment). Using heavy amounts of recon missions is the best way to find these
openings in the Axis lines, especially when the panzer units race ahead of their infantry support. These units
will not be getting any supplies next turn, slowing the Axis advance in the area.

[Grognard1812]

Southern Front at the end of GT 4

The area around the two cities of Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye at the end of the Soviet GT 4.

Surrounded the Wiking SS Motorized Division and sent 6 high morale infantry divisions to the area.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

Southern Front at the end of GT 4

The area around the two cities of Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye at the end of the Soviet GT 4.

Surrounded the Wiking SS Motorized Division and sent 6 high morale infantry divisions to the area.

Next turn is going to be interesting for sure.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

A tactic I learned from my 2x3 game

Looks like Telemecus is a good teacher

I have most certainly have been exposed to a whole new level in this game. It is trying to understand the nuences of this game that I caution players about changing algorithms before really understanding the game. The can only say the game is very complex and given mastering these complexities is essential to making the game work.

I wish there were concise manuals capturing these nuences .. but playing side by side with a master has been enlightening

[Twigster]

Speaking as one who is just now seriously getting into the PvP aspect of the game, I agree. Following this AAR from the beginning (from the perspective of both sides) has helped clarify my understanding of certain game dynamics.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

A tactic I learned from my 2x3 game

Looks like Telemecus is a good teacher

I have most certainly have been exposed to a whole new level in this game. It is trying to understand the nuences of this game that I caution players about changing algorithms before really understanding the game. The can only say the game is very complex and given mastering these complexities is essential to making the game work.

I wish there were concise manuals capturing these nuences .. but playing side by side with a master has been enlightening

Oh, so you are saying you are ready for a game ;-P

[tyronec]

T5
Grognard has done some bombing, losing 51 for 3. No ground attacks.

In Finland he has several units at the river line so looks like he will try and slow or stop the advance there.

In front of Leningrad there is one river defence where he just has a brigade so I may be able to make a crossing there as the infantry come up, but also want to rest my panzers for next turn when the real battle should start. The best of his air force is in four stacks next to the city.
There is very little defending south of lake Ilmen so another possibility would be to try and cross the river there but it would require committing some armour.

Opposite AGC the retreat continues, will be two turns before the infantry arrive. Will just advance and flip more terrain. The air bases have pulled back so harder to bomb in full strength. He has also retreated in front of Kiev so PG2 should be able to link up with AGC. I need to consider what to do with the two Pz corps around Kiev.

South. He has cut off two Pz. Corps using cavalry and also surrounded Wiking. Another mistake, I got too far ahead of my infantry last turn and didn't think he could get that far behind my lines; one of them may have got there by rail.
The priority is to relieve Wiking, which may not be easy. If my infantry were further forward could look at making a pocket but that doesn't look practical.

Air war. In the south there are a few stacks near Poltava which look a good target. In the north will engage the heavy stacks around Leningrad with my fighters and think I can use the bombers to do unsupported ground attacks in some areas.

[tyronec]

Finland. We set up to attack the defensive line north of Lake Lagoda. May be able to catch a couple of infantry divisions on the isthmus.

AGN. 16th Army storm the Luga (well, 1 brigade) and Model gets across with three divisions. This looks like the place to break through next turn so I bring up everything available and the Pz corps from PG3 does an HQB.
Below the Ilmen the there are only airborne brigades in the front line and 18th Army manages to push two of them back with hasty attacks. The only way I can occupy the terrain is to use a mot div from PG4, would have liked to send it north but good to keep some pressure on here as well.

[tyronec]

AGC. No attacks, the infantry advance another 40 miles and my two Pz corps rest. The cavalry at Kiev take Chernigov and are refuelled by air, should link up next turn.

[tyronec]

AGS. Still 8 divisions in the L'Vov pocket, am leaving them to wilt.
The attack around D'town worked out OK and Wiking get relieved with a couple of attacks to spare, had a well fuelled Pz. Corps at Kirovograd that covered the final few hexes. It leaves STAVKA with a few divisions that will struggle to extract themselves and hopefully will get pocketed next turn.

Air war. There were some 1100+ fighters up by Leningrad, too many to bomb, so the Luftwaffe does fighter sweeps and scores 300 for 20. Am hoping this will also weaken their morale and just maybe I will be facing a weaker force next turn and can bomb them, but of course they may withdraw out of range. The air bases around Poltava get bombed and my score for the turn is 478 for 50. Was also able to support the ground war down south and around lake Ilmen where there was no fighter cover and with my first effort at strategic bombing hit the IL factories at Voronezh.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

AGS. Still 8 divisions in the L'Vov pocket, am leaving them to wilt.
The attack around D'town worked out OK and Wiking get relieved with a couple of attacks to spare, had a well fuelled Pz. Corps at Kirovograd that covered the final few hexes. It leaves STAVKA with a few divisions that will struggle to extract themselves and hopefully will get pocketed next turn.

Air war. There were some 1100+ fighters up by Leningrad, too many to bomb, so the Luftwaffe does fighter sweeps and scores 300 for 20. Am hoping this will also weaken their morale and just maybe I will be facing a weaker force next turn and can bomb them, but of course they may withdraw out of range. The air bases around Poltava get bombed and my score for the turn is 478 for 50. Was also able to support the ground war down south and around lake Ilmen where there was no fighter cover and with my first effort at strategic bombing hit the IL factories at Voronezh.

Unless by some miracle they will be surrounded. It is unfortunate that a Soviet Mountain Division is in the mix. Mountain Division are hard pipe hitters & quick movers(60 Morale) in the Blizzard turns & I personally go out of my way to save as many as possible of these units. Especially since they don't respawn just like the Airborne brigades don't when eliminated.

[tyronec]

The mountain division had disappeared during my turn, perhaps Grognard can tell us what happened to it ?

[Grognard1812]

The Mountain Division's escape path was blocked by the German Mot Regiment located 2 hexes Northwest of it.
An attack by 3 Soviet Divisions forced the Mot Regiment to retreat allowing the Mountain Division to
escape over the Dnepr river, able to fight another day. It is under one of the stacks on the North side of the
river. This Soviet attack was the only one out of 4 that succeeded, as the others were against Divisional
sized Axis units which failed.

As all the industry from Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye (except for 4 Heavy Industry from Zaporozhye) had been
evacuated a new defensive line was set up around the river. Since most of the panzer and motorized units are
20 hexes or more from their rail supply line (due to their successful rescue of the Wiking Division) I doubt they
will have enough Movement points to attack and cross the Dnepr next turn. 5 Soviet divisions were unable to escape.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

The Mountain Division's escape path was blocked by the German Mot Regiment located 2 hexes Northwest of it.
An attack by 3 Soviet Divisions forced the Mot Regiment to retreat allowing the Mountain Division to
escape over the Dnepr river, able to fight another day. It is under one of the stacks on the North side of the
river. This Soviet attack was the only one out of 4 that succeeded, as the others were against Divisional
sized Axis units which failed.

As all the industry from Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye (except for 4 Heavy Industry from Zaporozhye) had been
evacuated a new defensive line was set up around the river. Since most of the panzer and motorized units are
20 hexes or more from their rail supply line (due to their successful rescue of the Wiking Division) I doubt they
will have enough Movement points to attack and cross the Dnepr next turn. 5 Soviet divisions were unable to escape.

Very nice save of the Mountain Division, along with the Armor that was there too . Mr Stalin has taken that commander of that front off the kill list, for now........ ;-P. I do see 3 "good" divisions (the 2 attack value with experienced squads) going to be working on the German railroad soon.

[Grognard1812]

Thank-you HardLuckYetAgain.

I was lucky that only 5 divisions couldn't escape, could have been a much bigger pocket. My number one priority
this early in the game is avoiding pockets and unnecessarily losing units which are needed for the defense
of Leningrad and Moscow.