Korut Zelva vs Taxman66: Battle of the newbie

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: July 1, 1941

Stavka is very concerned about the new long barreled Panzer III and IV's that are now sweeping across Western Russia.
The grim debate about how to best counter them? Invest in improving our own tanks? Bombers? Anti-Tank weaponry? Meanwhile
the field commanders are demanding more troops! Stalin is concerned that Mother Russia can't do it all. A junior staff Colonel asks,
"What does one have to do with the other? I mean one is scientists and engineers and the other is recruitment and manufacturing." Uncle
Joe gives a withering stare and the young colonel is quietly removed from the room. There is dead silence all around until a single
gun shot is heard from outside. The discussion then continues. Quietly everyone hopes for a very, very early and wet fall and a long winter.

Indian and Canadian troops again approach Bagdad, sporting new equipment. It's mostly a bluff, but the Iraqi garrison lays down their arms
and the intense but short lived coup is over*

Troops continue to pull back in Egypt, little hope is left for the defenders of El Alamein only that they and perhaps a sandstorm will delay
the Axis forces a bit longer.

-----
* I wonder if the trigger for the Iraq no-surrender bug is if the 2nd UK unit arrives next to Bagdad on a different turn.
Once I backed off and moved next to Bagdad with 2 units on the same turn it surrendered. My opponent didn't support them and they held for 4 turns I believe (when the chance was 75% to
surrender)

I took another a risk with a particular move... After thinking about it while typing this up, I believe it will probably turn into a mistake.

I have to decide if the DE for USA sends Tanks to Egypt is worth it or not. I'm not sure if it will really slow the Axis down or not, even if it did it
probably wouldn't be for more than 2 turns at most.

Where ever I read that ASW research wasn't necessary (base 1.10 not the beta patch) seems totally wrong. My DDs are the Subs' b*tches and they are only 1 level higher (1 vs. 0) and have a
pip or 2 of exp. They are doing hits of 6 to the DD and only taking 2 or maybe sometimes 3. When I attack I'm doing 2 damage for 1 back and sometimes 1 for 1.


I invested USSR MPP in INF Weapons as soon as I had 200 MPP, I reinvested as soon as I got to level 1 (and am still waiting...). While I've gotten my share of research breakthroughs for the allies, they have almost always been
effectively meaningless (that is getting the particular tech early really didn't effect anything).... With the exception of the USA's first Industry breakthrough. I know how the Spying Tech only provides a
direct research bonus if it is higher than the highest level on the other side; But do you still get a higher chance of breakthroughs if your opponent's Spying is equal or more than yours? Just how
much of an improved chance is there? Specifically is it worth it for the USSR to invest in Spying or Industry? I thought I had a decent number of units, and certainly have a lot more than I have in a vs.
AI game (see my comments about USSR mobilization in another thread and my suspicion that AI Germany has a secret bonus there)... But they're melting away like butter and barely denting the attacker.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

* I wonder if the trigger for the Iraq no-surrender bug is if the 2nd UK unit arrives next to Bagdad on a different turn.
Once I backed off and moved next to Bagdad with 2 units on the same turn it surrendered. My opponent didn't support them and they held for 4 turns I believe (when the chance was 75% to
surrender)

When you say "4 turns" do you mean 2 of your turns and 2 of your opponents turns, or 4 of each (and therefor 8 turns total)?

In any event, I hope you are right Taxman as I now have 3 games on the go with 2 units next to Baghdad. In two of them my units moved adjacent on different turns with a 25% chance of surrender. After a combined 20 turns Iraq has not surrendered in either game. In my 3rd game I moved both my units next to Baghdad on the same turn with a 75% chance of surrender. So far it has been only 1 turn, but no surrender. I suspect I won't get another chance as I'm pretty sure my opponent has moved his super TAC within range and will destroy at least one of my units.

Perhaps the bug is that surrender is only checked on the first turn you move your second unit adjacent to Baghdad and not on all subsequent turns like it is supposed to. Hopefully I will get an answer soon.

Good AAR by the way guys. Don't get discouraged Taxman, this game has a steep learning curve to play it well. I am certainly not there yet myself.

[KorutZelva]

Mid-July 1941

-UK withdrawal in Egypt turns to a rout, Alexandria falls. Rommel's panzers overruns the airfield near cairo but stops before the city proper to refuel. The USA are alarmed by Axis gain but Charles Lindbergh write an eloquent open letter to the New York time ''Chill out, lord dude'' extolling the virtue of isolationism. (Aka Axis get a 14% diplo hit on the USA)
-No sign of USA tanks in Egypt, it seems the allies considered it wasn't worth risking angering Turkey.
-Casablanca is reenforced with fighters but Germany's bombers are escorted and go undamaged.
-Rapid progress is made in the Ukraine, progress in the baltic states is slower as the army groups there heavily rely on corps. USSR land unit count is 39.

[Taxman66]

I haven't gotten the DE pop up yet for the tanks.

Looks like my bad luck continues to compound my poor play.

[:'(]

[KorutZelva]

I wasn't sure because the manual says the requirement for DE_300: is Axis unit in El Alamein and Alexandria in allied hand. But since the iraq coup happened outside the manual stated radius, I figured the trigger was not accurate.

It seems I might have dodged a Sherman's bullet. [8D]

[Taxman66]

I think the trigger for the coup was the 2nd condition: Within 5 hexes of Alexandria. Not sure ow you could do the El Alamein without also doing Alexandria.

[sapper32]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

Mid-July 1941

-UK withdrawal in Egypt turns to a rout, Alexandria falls. Rommel's panzers overruns the airfield near cairo but stops before the city proper to refuel. The USA are alarmed by Axis gain but Charles Lindbergh write an eloquent open letter to the New York time ''Chill out, lord dude'' extolling the virtue of isolationism. (Aka Axis get a 14% diplo hit on the USA)
-No sign of USA tanks in Egypt, it seems the allies considered it wasn't worth risking angering Turkey.
-Casablanca is reenforced with fighters but Germany's bombers are escorted and go undamaged.
-Rapid progress is made in the Ukraine, progress in the baltic states is slower as the army groups there heavily rely on corps. USSR land unit count is 39.

The situation in North Africa is usually grim for the allies you just need to decide how much MMP you want to waste slowing the Axis down I've thrown the entire CW / US military into Egypt and the Axis still broke through although it was early 43 Great AAR btw

[Taxman66]

Harry Bannana,

Missed your question, it was at least 3 and probably 4 of my own turns so 7 or 8 in total.

I can see what is being done, though some thing are a shock (GE subs using Greenland), I'm scratching my head at what the counter moves are.

[ernieschwitz]

I was too pissed off to do it earlier after my team blew a 15 point lead with 3 mins left in the game... not to mention loosing yet another important player most likely for the rest of the year.

Believe me, I know how that feels!!!

[Taxman66]

Sorry, no turn tonight.
My youngest (8th grade) needs to make up a bunch of work before Thanksgiving break, and most of it needs to be turned in online.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: July 15, 1941

Two moderately damaged subs are found near Scotland. One off the Isle of Lewis and the other amongst Faroe Islands.
Destroyers and Carrier born Swordfish strike them leaving one at STR 3, and the other at 4.

The convoy lines are clear of interference this turn. I wonder if they've all gone home to repair and resupply.
Or if they are being upgraded to newer models?

The Maxim Gorky scouts the waters off the South Western coast of Finland and runs into the expected trap. Bismarck and a
Battle Cruiser are there waiting for her. Maxim Gorky survives the encounter and radio's the intel to the rest of the
Russian Baltic Fleet. S-4 moves in on Bismarck and hits her with 2 torpedoes. The (poor excusive for a) Battleship
Marat next moves in on the wounded Bismarck (now STR 6) and exchanges multiple broadsides. Bismarck barely survives (STR 1)
While the Russian Baltic Fleet is down to CL 3, Sub 8 and BB 5.

My luck holds, I can't seem to ever get kill on a German unit.

In the Ukraine the Germans are all but running free.
North of the marshes the German advance is slower.
A German Cavalry unit ventures a bit too far on its own on the North Eastern suburb of Baranowicze near Minsk. The Soviet
Corps garrisoning the city swats the Cav like a dog with a rolled up newspaper. The German Cavalry retreats north west only
to be chased by unit of Soviet BT-7s (light tanks) which inflict another point of damage (The Cav is down to 6 or 5 STR).

[Harrybanana]

Taxman,

A few tips on sinking subs:

1. When you find a sub but don't sink it write down it's location, strength and supply level. Unless you have a good memory (I don't) this will make it easier to find next turn.

2. After your attacks try and have at least 4 naval units (preferably destroyers) stationed around the sub each 2 hexes (1 intervening hex) away. Do this even if you have to cruise into these hexes. Unless it doesn't move at all the sub will have to move adjacent to one of these units on its next turn. So you will be able to see what direction it is moving in. If it is not moving in hidden mode you will get an attack on it, if it is moving in hidden mode it will move fewer hexes.

3.How much supply a sub has after your last attack is very important. If the sub has 4 supply or less than I believe they can only move a maximum of 6 hexes. This will help narrow down your search. For this reason it is always a good idea to attack a sub even if you don't expect to do any damage as you will reduce its supply level.

4. If you have 2 potential sub targets it is generally better to make all of your attacks against just one of them. It is better to sink one sub and leave the other at strength 10 then to reduce both to strength 5. The exception is if you can get both of them down to a supply of 4 or less. Then over the next few turns you can pick them both off at your leisure as they won't be able to move very far.

5. Keep your destroyers at maximum 10 strength. So if you have, for example, an 8 strength destroyer (and no targets in range or that you can cut off) cruise the destroyer to port and reinforce it on your next turn. Full strength destroyers have higher efficiency, which means they do more damage and are less likely to be sunk themselves.

[KorutZelva]

1941/7/22

Egypt surrenders leaving the fleeing UK forces stranded in enemy territory near the transjordan border. Franco is impressed by the Axis successes and readies his army for war.

Paradrop unit destroy the garrison in casablanca but cannot take the city proper. Defending Uk fighter decimated fruitlessly defending the garrison vs air raids.

Germany detects the first Russian concentration of importance near Ostrov, the russian defensive line standing behind the river.

Panzer lunges forth to capture the two adjacent Ukranian mines.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: July 29, 1941

The Soviet Baltic Fleet goes after the Gneisenau damaging her to under half strength, but the pocket battleship
manages to sink Maxim Gorky and further damage Marat.

The lone Soviet line near Ostrov looks flimsy as there is a host of German armor and mechanized forces facing it.

There is a bit of bulge as Germany has not (yet at least) pushed for Smolensk.

In the Ukraine there are not enough units to cover the Dnepr.

The two subs off Scotland aren't found.

One sub is found along the Iraq Convoy line west of northern France. The destroyer engages and gets a 1:2 hit. A second
destroyer summoned to attack runs into another sub also on the line a bit to the south west. This sub is hurting and
out of supply. The wounded sub is hit, but manages to survive.

Finland & Spain join the war on the Axis side.
If I hadn't gotten impatient and waited to exchange the Gibraltar GAR Spain would still be a diplo hit away from
joining. He would've had to wait for that or pony up the 800 MPP.

----
I really need some luck and get a breakthrough with the Soviet INF Weapon Tech to have any chance of stalling
what is happening. I invested to get INF weapons as soon as possible, and reinvested as soon as I got it. It's still
far away. The only other thing I could've done would've been to invest in Spying for the Soviets, but I haven't seen
anything telling what the specific improvement chances for breakthroughs are. Nor if you even get the breakthrough
improvement chance if you opponent has the same or higher spying level.

Newbie mistake: If you are going to try and throw a last ditch defensive line behind the canal make sure there is a
unit in El Arish, or better a small chain to ensure supply through Palestine. Never had to worry about that in other games
I've played. Oh well, won't happen again.

Didn't get the DE for American Tanks in Egypt.
Haven't gotten the DE for Persia yet either.

HarryB:
Most of that I knew, or started to figure out on my own. It's things like the subs using Greenland (before the US takes it) that I didn't
know. The problem however, is that there is not enough Destroyers to search the lines and to pack attack a sub
when it is found. One idea is to camp the French ports but you're begging to get hit by land based air if you do that.
Another idea is to use the CVs. But it is very often raining in the North Atlantic and they are super expensive
to maintain and repair.

Very soon I'm going to have to worry about subs being protected by the Italian fleet hunting for the Destroyers.

I guess the Americans are going to have to build additional naval assests, that will obviously slow down the amry and air force
build ups to even think about Torch or Norway or now Spain.

[KorutZelva]

Aug 5, 1941

-Ostrov line comes under heavy pressure and is on the verge of collapse.
-Troops are ammassed for an attack on Minsk, advance in Ukraine paused as infantry tries to catch up to the mechanised units.
-Str 1 sub bumps into destroyer while trying to sneak away... taxman might finally have his first sub killing blow.
-Two subs run into a picket of battleships at doggerbank
-Casablanca finally falls, Jean Bart restored to service.
-Uk Troops escape route to palestine is blocked by german panzers, they will have to make a final stand in El Arish.
-Mussolini upset that German took control of Egypt which was promised to them (screwed up, I forgot to use an italian unit to conquer it) and asks for a free hand to conquer Vichy France. Hitler agrees but ask to proceed only in due time.
-The entry of Spain and finland tilts the unit balance further in the axis favor.

============

AFAIK spying doesn't help breakthrough but it helps with the incremental % gain. (which admittedly can get you pass the possible breakthrough threshold faster)

============

[BPINisBACK]

Poor Russians!!!
[:D][:D][:D][:D]

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: BPINisBACK

Poor Russians!!!
[:D][:D][:D][:D]

Given that I re-purposed your patented 'Lithuanian pincer' from your AAR with crispy, you get the assist.

Other than my botched initial placement, my version has a bit more southern commitment in troops.

[BPINisBACK]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

ORIGINAL: BPINisBACK

Poor Russians!!!
[:D][:D][:D][:D]

Given that I re-purposed your patented 'Lithuanian pincer' from your AAR with crispy, you get the assist.

Other than my botched initial placement, my version has a bit more southern commitment in troops.

I was confident that Crispi will focus in northen Russia but he didn't, which allow me to advance better in the north but much slower in the south that i wanted

It seems, anyway, that the Russian army in your game is... pitiful???? [X(][X(][X(]

You are gonna hit the jackpot, at least the first year...!!!

[Taxman66]

The manual says that Spying/Intelligence increases the chance of breakthroughs.
The steady increase in research is only if yours is higher than your enemies. Not sure how that works for a Neutral USSR (Italy would be in the war before she got to lvl 1 Spy/Intel).

I probably spent too much on USSR research and should've at least timed more reinforcements for the summer, not that it would mean that much vs. level 3 panzers.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

The manual says that Spying/Intelligence increases the chance of breakthroughs.
The steady increase in research is only if yours is higher than your enemies. Not sure how that works for a Neutral USSR (Italy would be in the war before she got to lvl 1 Spy/Intel).

I probably spent too much on USSR research and should've at least timed more reinforcements for the summer, not that it would mean that much vs. level 3 panzers.

You're right it helps breakthrough.

tm.asp?m=4344289&mpage=2&key=spying%2Cbill�

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

I've been getting a bit confused here too, so I'll start again from scratch here: [:)]

Spying & Intelligence increases your research progress towards 100%, at all levels and in all categories.

If your level of Spying & Intelligence is higher than any of your opponents', then it will also increase by 1% per level that you are higher than the enemy, your chance of a breakthrough.

Hopefully that makes more sense and helps answer the question?

Bill