tyronec (Axis) vs Grognard1812. Grognard welcome.

[Grognard1812]

As the AAR is only one turn behind the actual turn we are playing, I think it keeps things very interesting because
neither Tyronec or I know yet how our strategies will turn out and any advice or comments that are posted can
have an effect on the progress of the game.

I didn't know that a fortification level 3 is considered dense terrain, which makes building them much more
important.
Yes, I did place General Zhukov is charge of the army defending Leningrad. Without his Infantry 9 rating the city
would fall too easily.

As the Soviet player my basic strategy is the following in order of priority

1) As we are playing the Sudden-Death Campaign Scenario which is a variant of the VC 260 campaign, as the Soviet
player I cannot allow the Axis to obtain 260 victory points (if they do the game ends immediately as a decisive
Axis victory). This requires that I defend the Leningrad, Moscow, Voronezh to Rostov line. To reach 260 the
Axis must capture all four.

2) Avoid unnecessary loses due to units being encircled. Although it appears that I retreated
quickly during the game, I actually tried to accomplish 3 things each turn - avoid the formation of a pocket,
only move back 4 to 5 hexes a turn if possible which would require the Axis infantry to expend an extra +1 or
+2 per turn to enter hexes that have not yet been converted to Axis control and try to keep his panzer units
over 25 MP and 20 hexes from their rail supply to limit fuel delivery.

3) Hold Leningrad and Moscow if at all possible.

Against a capable and experienced Axis player such as Tyronec by defending forward and trying to delay the Axis
advance on Moscow I feel would have probably only resulted in my losing a large part of the Soviet army. Possibly
delaying the Axis forces only a few turns - a Pyrrhic victory as then there would not be enough Soviet forces
to prevent the eventual capture of Moscow before December, and the Soviet forces would be too weak to have a
successful Winter counter offensive (our game settings are no Soviet combat bonus and normal full blizzard.

Presently I am completing Soviet GT 8 and the Order of battle has the Soviets at about 4.1 million and total Soviet
casualties of about 1.26 million, having lost few units in the retreat.

Thank-you for your advice and comments.

[Grognard1812]

Loses as of Soviet Game Turn 8.

[topeverest]

if this is sudden death and soviets resign if those 4 objectives are held in 41, let me suggest that Moscow and Leningrad are already 95% gone. You might be playing to hold Rostov and V. Let me suggest burning a few units and in-contact slow withdrawal where armor isn't present might be considered.

Good luck.

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

As the AAR is only one turn behind the actual turn we are playing, I think it keeps things very interesting because
neither Tyronec or I know yet how our strategies will turn out and any advice or comments that are posted can
have an effect on the progress of the game.

I didn't know that a fortification level 3 is considered dense terrain, which makes building them much more
important.
Yes, I did place General Zhukov is charge of the army defending Leningrad. Without his Infantry 9 rating the city
would fall too easily.

As the Soviet player my basic strategy is the following in order of priority

1) As we are playing the Sudden-Death Campaign Scenario which is a variant of the VC 260 campaign, as the Soviet
player I cannot allow the Axis to obtain 260 victory points (if they do the game ends immediately as a decisive
Axis victory). This requires that I defend the Leningrad, Moscow, Voronezh to Rostov line. To reach 260 the
Axis must capture all four.

2) Avoid unnecessary loses due to units being encircled. Although it appears that I retreated
quickly during the game, I actually tried to accomplish 3 things each turn - avoid the formation of a pocket,
only move back 4 to 5 hexes a turn if possible which would require the Axis infantry to expend an extra +1 or
+2 per turn to enter hexes that have not yet been converted to Axis control and try to keep his panzer units
over 25 MP and 20 hexes from their rail supply to limit fuel delivery.

3) Hold Leningrad and Moscow if at all possible.

Against a capable and experienced Axis player such as Tyronec by defending forward and trying to delay the Axis
advance on Moscow I feel would have probably only resulted in my losing a large part of the Soviet army. Possibly
delaying the Axis forces only a few turns - a Pyrrhic victory as then there would not be enough Soviet forces
to prevent the eventual capture of Moscow before December, and the Soviet forces would be too weak to have a
successful Winter counter offensive (our game settings are no Soviet combat bonus and normal full blizzard.

Presently I am completing Soviet GT 8 and the Order of battle has the Soviets at about 4.1 million and total Soviet
casualties of about 1.26 million, having lost few units in the retreat.

Thank-you for your advice and comments.

[EwaldvonKleist]

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

The following was the most successful airfield attack mission of GT 6, where 14 fighters were
lost by the Luftwaffe.

In this case the fighter activation wasn't high. Why I can only guess, was it exhaustion from fighter sweeps in the Axis turn? Not many fighters at all in this area? Fighters deliberately turned off for the Soviet phase? Was the fighter air base stacked with a HQ with a high amount of mixed and heavy LW flak bataillions? Would be interested in this tyronec if you still remember.

Generally, there seems to be a maximum sum of Soviet fighters+bombers that can attack a German air base, from my experience around 180. If the axis player can get some 140+ fighters in the air, no Soviet bombers will get through to cause damage on the ground. And in addition the bomber morale will be wrecked to the point that they have to be cycled to the reserve one or two times, costing the soviet player 2-4 turns before the bomber group can attack an airfield again.

[tyronec]

In this case the fighter activation wasn't high. Why I can only guess, was it exhaustion from fighter sweeps in the Axis turn? Not many fighters at all in this area? Fighters deliberately turned off for the Soviet phase? Was the fighter air base stacked with a HQ with a high amount of mixed and heavy LW flak bataillions? Would be interested in this tyronec if you still remember.

Probably 70% of the Luftwaffe single engine fighters were in these three hexes, mostly under Richtofen. In this game I have had all my best AA with the Luftwaffe and the very best with up here, usually I try and stack them with airbases from different corps and then a corps HQ; and then the air army HQ nearby, I don't know if you can get more than 6 AA SU's into the defense this way - do you ?
All fighters were turned on, or at least I hope their pilots were.
I think this post is from the same turn as my one in the war room, the majority of the losses were 'operational' which I presume means crash landed from fatigue, air-to-air and bombing losses were low.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Thank you for your answer. If you really had so many fighters in this area, its weird you only got an activation of 71.
I agree with you analysis on the loss structure. When I did bomb the air bases of my opponent, I turned up the combat detail and most German aircraft were not shot down or bombed on the ground, but "crashed during landing". I believe that is counted as an operational loss. So your fighters were probably too fatigued.

and then the air army HQ nearby, I don't know if you can get more than 6 AA SU's into the defense this way - do you ?

Thats an interesting point. Does the HQ send its AA SUs to its airbases in case of an airfield bombing attack if not in the same hexagon, but within 5 hexagons? I always wondered this but was too lazy to test it.
To maximize the AA fire I usually stack my airbases with an HQ and stuff it with AA support units, sometimes more than 6. And if the HQ with all the support units is in the same hexagon as the attacked air base, I believe all SUs in the HQ will help, so you can get more than 6 on this way.

[chaos45]

At least a couple patches ago the higher headquarters would send AA units to defend attached Air bases. It was one way I defended the leningrad port vs bombing, as I stuck an airbase on it and gave like 6 AA regiments to its HQ which was outside leningrad but within 5 hexes.

[tyronec]

T8.
Note that this was written before the feedback from T7, with AGN I might well have been better to keep pushing North to join up with the Finns instead of assaulting Leningrad.


Another quiet turn with little action.

AGN. I assault Leningrad, usually try and cross the river to the East but as I could get thee full attacks on the city hex, with no river crossing, had a go at that. Three defeats but have got the fort down to 1.06 so should have better prospects next turn.

AGC. Soviets were too far away to attack with infantry so no action, have all my infantry set for next turn and panzers ready to follow up. Did an HQB which will be wasted if he runs again.

[tyronec]

AGS. Again far too far for my infantry to catch up, push a couple of stacks back with the armour to get me another hex further forward. Infantry will begin to get there next turn unless he retreats again.

Air war. Very little happening, looks like half the soviet air force has gone into reserve ready to pup up beside Moscow next turn.

[Grognard1812]

Soviet GT 8

Worrisome buildup of German infantry and panzer troops in front of Moscow's defenses, threatening an infantry
attack followed by a panzer breakthrough with a large pocket.

[Grognard1812]

Best to retreat to previously built defenses around Moscow. The majority of the Soviet Air Force was transferred
to the Moscow area.

[Grognard1812]

Continued the retreat in the South, with a cavalry division cutting off the supply to a panzer division and
two motorized divisions.

The air war was quiet on GT 8, expect the air war to re-start on GT 9 with the transfer of most of the Soviet
Air Force to the Moscow area.

[John B.]

Curious to see how long you can hold Moscow!

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: John B.

Curious to see how long you can hold Moscow!

I don't think that is the plan. At least it isn't looking like it. He is preserving the Army to fight another day. Will see how this plays out.


John B what part of Virginia you from? I'm in Northern VA.

[Psych0]

Ultra Sir Robin defence to avoid any pockets. Interesting to see if a max Red Army can get back from giving up THIS much space so quickly. How is your industry evac keeping up with this retreat, grognard?

[chaos45]

the problem is giving up space that quickly = lost units, as the soviet manpower bonus in 1941 is huge. Yes he will end up with more experience units in late 1941 and early 1942 but Im also curious how many factories he has lost will lose, as this can present a big problem in 42/43 when armaments points reserve runs dry.

Soviet attrition losses are also massive until late 1943 due to low experience and support, so you need alot of manpower just to keep the soviet army afloat. Be interesting to see how the run at max speed turns out- Im thinking not good.

[Grognard1812]

I have evacuated all my Aircraft, AFV and Combat Vehicle factories that are in harms way, I don't evacuate
generic vehicle factories because Lend Lease in later years will provide far more generic vehicles than
Soviet production can. Just before blizzard starts I will list how many factories (Armaments, Heavy Industry, and
Generic Vehicles) have been lost.

My impression from reading the AARs is that when a Soviet player decides to resign in 1941 or 1942 it isn't
because they have lost too many factories, it is because their army has taken too many loses to recover.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

I have evacuated all my Aircraft, AFV and Combat Vehicle factories that are in harms way, I don't evacuate
generic vehicle factories because Lend Lease in later years will provide far more generic vehicles than
Soviet production can. Just before blizzard starts I will list how many factories (Armaments, Heavy Industry, and
Generic Vehicles) have been lost.

My impression from reading the AARs is that when a Soviet player decides to resign in 1941 or 1942 it isn't
because they have lost too many factories, it is because their army has taken too many loses to recover.

I think you will be just fine to be honest as long as you don't get masses of units surrounded in the foreseeable future.

[tyronec]

the problem is giving up space that quickly = lost units, as the soviet manpower bonus in 1941 is huge. Yes he will end up with more experience units in late 1941 and early 1942 but Im also curious how many factories he has lost will lose, as this can present a big problem in 42/43 when armaments points reserve runs dry.

Soviet attrition losses are also massive until late 1943 due to low experience and support, so you need alot of manpower just to keep the soviet army afloat. Be interesting to see how the run at max speed turns out- Im thinking not good.

New strategy for me so not sure how it will work out. From the Axis side I have been at the limit of my supply which is frustrating, however without much combat my army is in good shape and lots of APs with only two HQBs to date.

[tyronec]

T9.
AGN. No change from last turn, am facing strong defence on the Leningrad front line and 30+ divisions defending East of the city. It looks like there may be some units that have pulled out of Leningrad by sea and are on the railway line. Have three possible lines of attack:
Continue the assault on the Leningrad hex - is up to over 100 defence again but the fort is only 1.48. Can do 3 good attacks.
Switch to the Eastern hex - has a defence of 53 and fort of 2.88. Could do 2 attacks.
Abandon the assault on Leningrad and switch the attack along the coast of Lake Lagoda.
There are some 600 fighters giving cover.
Will do my attacks further East first and then consider what to do.