H2H Final Release is now up!

MacCready · Post by **MacCready** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:46 am

Lucky you ,I haven't been able to get to the server at all today,maybe its just inindated with users,I'd like to upgrade my H2H
from version CE to FE.
I'll keep trying of course,Is this the only place on the internet that has the final version download?

stevemk1a · Post by **stevemk1a** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:58 am

After many failed attempts ... I finally got right to the site and the d/l went smoothly

! It's installed and running ... patience pays off!

chief · Post by **chief** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:31 am

To Panzer Leo:
After copying all the data in shorthand i finally got your updated version....and I like it.

To Warrior Avery:
In the first scenario i founf the preferences to be set at 60/60 for serching !!!!is this where it's supposed to be ?
It's not a big thing but i'm used to seeing no changes. Otherwise I'm enjoying you scenario as it is now.

resp chief

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:23 pm

I finally got through at 0500 today. At first it got one of those site missing type of messages, immediately, and having to deal a lot with that at work, though I was at home, I hit it once again, and then it went through it's painful process, only to get through approximately 5 minutes later. I must've tried 3 or 4 times yesterday, and on at least a couple of those attempts it came up saying the database was down.

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:41 pm

great work!
I have donwload it yesterday.
congratulations and thanks to PzLeo and the rest of the team

chief · Post by **chief** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:39 pm

It never ceases to amaze me as to what a dedicated group of (SPWAW) volunteers "can do" for the love of this game. To all who made this version of H2H "Bravo Zulu"

TANKS

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:11 pm

Leo,

First off thanks for putting such a tremendous effort into making a great game even greater.

2nd, a question. Your documentation says that infantry are now 'tougher'. Can you elaborate on that a little?

Does this mean that the tendancy for infantry units, even in cover to suffer greatly increased too hit chances has been reduced somewhat?

Example:

entrenched inf unit spotted in hex. Tank (or inf) fires at it and gets correspondingly low to hit % (say 5%)

However if the entrenched inf unit returns fire. The next shot from any units will get a greatly enhanced to hit % (say, 45%)

Often wondered about this aspect in WAW....at first it seemed to make sense as it encouraged combined arms tactics, + it would seem to make sense that a unit thats "firing" is more vulnerable vs one that is taking cover, but now it feels a bit too gamey because it can be counted on every time and the to hit % change is so dramatic. Makes it very easy for AFV's to root out infantry in cover terrain or buildings.

ThomasBELL123 · Post by **ThomasBELL123** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:12 pm

Wait One.

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:42 am

Originally posted by Nikademus
2nd, a question. Your documentation says that infantry are now 'tougher'. Can you elaborate on that a little?

Does this mean that the tendancy for infantry units, even in cover to suffer greatly increased too hit chances has been reduced somewhat?

Not Leo ... but I guess that the infatry is "tougher" because is harder to spot than in previous versions.

As SEARCHING is seted at 60% in the preferences screen, every unit is harder to spot ... but smaller units are even harder. So untis like infantry and ATG, which have a size of 1 may be really dificult to spot. So infantry have more chances to ambrush tanks ... or slowly advance and then assault enemy tanks ...

Tanks are also worst for spotting ... so you will need infantry and recon units to spot entrenched or in-cover enemy units.

I think tath this is what makes infantry tougher in SPh2H.fr

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:45 am

Originally posted by chief

To Warrior Avery:
In the first scenario i founf the preferences to be set at 60/60 for serching !!!!is this where it's supposed to be ?
It's not a big thing but i'm used to seeing no changes. Otherwise I'm enjoying you scenario as it is now.

resp chief

Chief, I don't remember if I set it that way or not, but don't think I did, particularly since I NEVER set total points available. My guess is that it's a preference that's throughout the scenarios, but I didn't check, just reset the global preferences. (I always use 100% or XXX preferences, fast artillery on, C & C off, opt fire off, and my units numbered.) Perhaps Panzer Leo can shed light on it.... (In response to a couple of other comments, I've found units harder to spot in H2H without setting that preference lower.)

Glad you're enjoying it, no matter what the settings! Thanks!

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:50 am

Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
Not Leo ... but I guess that the infatry is "tougher" because is harder to spot than in previous versions.

As SEARCHING is seted at 60% in the preferences screen, every unit is harder to spot ... but smaller units are even harder. So untis like infantry and ATG, which have a size of 1 may be really dificult to spot. So infantry have more chances to ambrush tanks ... or slowly advance and then assault enemy tanks ...

Tanks are also worst for spotting ... so you will need infantry and recon units to spot entrenched or in-cover enemy units.

I think tath this is what makes infantry tougher in SPh2H.fr

hmm well i hope this doesn't make small AT guns any harder to spot. Right now, even with infantry present, its all too easy for size 0 and size 1 AT guns, even those not entrenched to become hidden again despite nearly constant firing.

chief · Post by **chief** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:11 am

Had I pre-read the blurb put out by PZ Leo on page 1 bottom of page "Note, that the preset preferences setting of "SEARCHING" is now at 60%". My bad

I should read carefully instead of scan reading and jumping in with both (feet) eyes shut. Thanks for reply guy, sorry again.

Chief (senior moment operator):(

Alby · Post by **Alby** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:21 am

Originally posted by Nikademus
hmm well i hope this doesn't make small AT guns any harder to spot. Right now, even with infantry present, its all too easy for size 0 and size 1 AT guns, even those not entrenched to become hidden again despite nearly constant firing.

Im playing an email game now
and my us recon forces are being fired at by soviet AT guns from less then 4 hexes and I aint spotted em yet!! heheheh

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:27 pm

Infantry is tougher because of two reasons:

- 60% searching helps infantry and small guns more then it does vehicles. Spotting infantry (or small guns) is something one should take more care of then it used to be...otherwise you'll stumble around without knowing what's going on.

- The increased Morale values (+15), lessens a bit the suppression, that mainly infantry suffers from (but not dramatically) and also increases the ambush chance a bit.
Example: a Panzerfaust team had an average assault chance of 40-45% success in disabling or destroying a vehicle. It Now should be somewhere at 50-55%.
The same applies to all assault chances.

What I wanted to achieve with these changes:

More realism

The reduced searching is supposed to have one specific effect, namely to slow the battles down.
Speed of vehicles has always been an issue, but I didn't like the approach to reduce them, as they're pretty realistic right now (vehicles simply can travel these distances, if they want to).
But if spotting becomes a major issue, one rarely can afford to just speed through enemy lines...move cautious, keep eyes open, then you will see the enemy.

Also it should encourage to use direct fire on a hex, rather then on a seen target. Normal combat often consist of just throwing some rounds into the vecinity of a suspected enemy...usually the less trained the troops, the less they actually aim at a real target, but rather fire into the direction of landmarks, obstacles a.s.o.

So use this feature...you may not see an AT-gun, but you saw the hex it fired from...pump a few HE rounds in it and suppress the gun...it also becomes easier to spot then...

so if US scouts don't spot an AT-gun position at 200m, I would think they are moving pretty fast (maybe even on a vehicle)...if they speeded up from somewhere and just jumped of a Halftrack, I think it feels right they don't see it immediately

A second effect of the higher morale is, that infantry does stay in the trenches...you will see elite units go down to 3 or maybe even 2/1 men (if they do not disperse), without throwing smoke and fleeing in panic over an open field just to get mowed down...(ofcourse some still do, but it's much less frequent now).

sztartur2 · Post by **sztartur2** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:24 pm

Highly Agreed.

Artur.

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:21 am

The new sounds for various units and weapons are outstanding! Thanks very much!

Eric Maietta

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:54 am

Originally posted by AbsntMndedProf
The new sounds for various units and weapons are outstanding! Thanks very much!

Eric Maietta

Excellent sounds so far.

I hit a tank and didn't hurt it but the sound was so cool I wanted to do it again.

As for spotting: I was sitting right next to a Jap triple 20mm AAA gun and knocked it down to one man. The next turn, it disappeared on me, so I drove away. The turn after that it was up and shooting at me again.

I can't kill it for anything. That kind of disappearing act, I can do without.

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:36 pm

Originally posted by Nikademus
hmm well i hope this doesn't make small AT guns any harder to spot. Right now, even with infantry present, its all too easy for size 0 and size 1 AT guns, even those not entrenched to become hidden again despite nearly constant firing.

Originally posted by Alby

Im playing an email game now
and my us recon forces are being fired at by soviet AT guns from less then 4 hexes and I aint spotted em yet!! heheheh

I have been doing some test with H2H fr.

I played some hot-seat games against myself with Soviets vs Germans in 1943. The test consisted in placing some ATG and Infantry (size 1); and some MMG (size 0) on certain places and solowly advancing recon/scouts units in order to see how much close the scouts have to get to spot the ATG/Infantry/MMG.

I disabelede the weapons of the ATG/Infantry/MMG units in order that the scouts could advance without beign fired upon.
During the ATG/Infantry/MMG turn I checked if they have discovered the advancing scouts or not

Here is what I get:

German infantry scout units need to get 4 or 3 hexes close to a Soviet ATG in order to spot is.
If GE Scout is moving not faster than 1 or 2 hexes per turn it can spot the Soviet unit before being spoted himself.

Soviet infantry scout units have to get a little closer to spot German ATG/infantry: may be 3 or 2 hexes (some experienced -75 poits- SO infantry and scouts can spot GE ATG at 3 or 4 hexes even after have moved).
GE ATG/Infantry may spot aproaching SO Recon Infantry at 4 or 5 hexes even if they move no faster than 2 hexes per turn.

MMG were really, really, really dificult to spot for both sides.

Is important to note that Germas are more experienced than Soviets in 1943, this is likely the reason why GE Recon performs better.

Both recon units and ATG/Inf/MMG were not supressed ... if they where supresed the result of the test may change (of course).

Wheather condition was clear and visibility was 35. It was noon.
Bad wheather condition, night or bad bisibility will obviously make ATG more dificult to spot.

If ATG/Infantry shoots more than 2 or 3 times during it's turn or using OP fire during enemy turn, they can be easily spoted at long distance (8 or 10 hexes).

If a tank moves slowly and then remains stationary by a couple of turns, it becomes invisible even for units that had spoted it.

I didn't test US. Sorry

RockinHarry · Post by **RockinHarry** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:46 pm

scenario/map designers might be interested to know, in SHP folder there´s a PDF file to be found that explains how to use the new terrain icons included with the H2H fr release!;)

"H2H Probing the stalin line" uses some of the new stuff.

have fun

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:04 am

Hmm

It seems to crasch whenever I trip a mine.

Does anyone have an idea why or tips on remedy? :p

H2H Final Release is now up!

First things first

WOW!

Re: First things first

Avery Note