Changing the map ??

StCyr · Post by **StCyr** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:04 am

Hi,
I just looked on screenshots from EIA- seems to me that there took place some changes...
For example, there is now the city of Kiel included, north of Hamburg with a habour. In fact, Kiel was nothing more but a meaningless spot in the nowhere, until it became "Reichskriegshafen" in 1871. During the winter of 1813/14 there had been about 8000 soldiers from Swe, Rus, and some geman states in the city, which had by that time less than 9000 citizens...and thats the most important "role" this villiage every played by this time. The habour of Kiel is worth to mention only after the German Reich decided to challange GBs naval power, because before that time it was only used by local fishermen. So PLEASE try to respect historic facts if u need to change the map at all.
Btw, I like the AvHi Map colours much more than that presented by the screenshots.

uli

John Umber · Post by **John Umber** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:20 am

StCyr,

I agree with you regarding the colours of the map in some way. The base colour for "plain" is a bit boring. But that is just my personal point of view. The original game map was a thing of beauty, but they must make it "fresher". I just hope they avoid the Panzer General series misstake. Good looking game in I. Then "handpainted" pieces in II where they lost a the nice good grasp of the European map (and the units were also nicer in I). In the last III they made the map and pieces 3D but so ugly that I never bother playing more than two scenarios. If making changes, be sure they are IMPROVEMENTS. We are talking about a "game" here, the map and pieces must be nice, "colourful" in a distinctive way and the map a whow!

The screenshots are hopefully in low resolution and we can hope they change some of the colours on the map... Please Matrix?

Regarding the area north of Hamburg. It is the area called Schleswig-Holstein and there are several small towns and harbours there. Naming Flensburg one of them. I suppose they changed the map to represent these combined. They were also several battles fought in the area (before the Napoleon era and after) and many of these towns are walled and well defended. Denmark in the north were not one of the peace loving nations at all times...

Regarding Kiel has harbour, I supose it could be considered a good natural harbour?

John Umber · Post by **John Umber** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:27 am

More questions for the map screenshot?

Holstein and Mecklenburg are nations. But what nations does Hamburg and Stralsund belong to? I don't see the distinct difference between provincal border and national border.

I can imagine grey being provincal and brownish the national border. But that does not make sense regarding the provinces mentioned above.
Is it possible to get similar screenshot of the rest of the map to comment on?

John Umber · Post by **John Umber** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:59 pm

Unit markers.

Question to Matrix.
Could it be possible to use units marker like the ones in the original game instead of these soldiers?

Pippin · Post by **Pippin** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:10 pm

John, not to get off topic here, but I am curious as to why you think the maps/units in PG1 are better than those in PG2? You are the first i've ran into that thought so. However, I do agree with you that the 3D versions are not so great. This was yet another example of a development team jumping on the 3D bandwagon...

"If it's 3D, it HAS to be better!"

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:16 pm

Originally posted by StCyr
Hi,
For example, there is now the city of Kiel included, north of Hamburg with a habour. In fact, Kiel was nothing more but a meaningless spot in the nowhere, until it became "Reichskriegshafen" in 1871. During the winter of 1813/14 there had been about 8000 soldiers from Swe, Rus, and some geman states in the city, which had by that time less than 9000 citizens...and thats the most important "role" this villiage every played by this time. The habour of Kiel is worth to mention only after the German Reich decided to challange GBs naval power, because before that time it was only used by local fishermen. So PLEASE try to respect historic facts if u need to change the map at all.

uli

I'm born in Kiel. So be carefull what you say

StCyr · Post by **StCyr** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:48 pm

I'm born in Kiel. So be carefull what you say

Well Larkin, I study in Kiel, and so I guess we both know what I am talking about...

John, Hamburg had been a "Reichsfreie" city- it was free from any other ruler except the Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire German Nations, and his power was also limited toward the city. Just like Lübeck, an important Hanse city. It was neutral when Blücher fled to this town in 1806 - also the french broke international law when they attacked and conquered the city.

Regarding the area north of Hamburg. It is the area called Schleswig-Holstein and there are several small towns and harbours there. Naming Flensburg one of them. I suppose they changed the map to represent these combined. They were also several battles fought in the area (before the Napoleon era and after) and many of these towns are walled and well defended. Denmark in the north were not one of the peace loving nations at all times...

Indeed there are to some degree "well defended" cities in what is called Schleswig Holstein today. But Kiel never was one of them. Kiels habour was only usefull for the local fishermen ond some local trade. On the other side, Lübeck is NOT present on the Matrix sreenshot card. So why place Kiel but leave Lübeck away ? Seems to me like a map from Tennessee without Memphis but Graceland. ( Ok Larkin, now I have to watch my back

)

Lübeck / Kiel is not that important- but I fear it is only one example for historical unreflected changes Matrix may do to the map.

John Umber · Post by **John Umber** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:55 pm

Answer to Pippin.

The maps are nice, but the scale are all wrong. We are talking cities and landscapes. The map shows a major settlement with a few houses...

No I still prefer the maps used in the first game. The units were nicer-cleaner as well. They units in two looked to "out of focus". They look more like something I can paint myself.

As you can see it is a question of personal taste. (But I know several that also prefered the first game for similar reasons).

Answer to LarkinVB.
Kiel was a small little settlement back then, but so was most of these towns and cities. Malmo was just over 20-25 000, but the area was more populated. Perhaps the city is more a symbol of the strategic value and defense capacity of the region/area? Not to forget the capacity for a garrisson of considerable strength...

Le Tondu · Post by **Le Tondu** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:46 pm

I think those are the same old ancient screenshots.

Yet, it has been stated that Matrix will allow modding of the maps and the units.

For instance, the "flag" used for the base of the French unit doesn't look very good either. Prussia, Rissia, Austria, and Spain have plenty of detail on their flag, but for some strange reason, France does not. Since they're using the 1804 pattern flag, I cannot help but notice the lack of the words "VALEUR ET DISCIPLINE" in the center as it was on all French flags of that pattern.

IF these are current screenshots ( and I think that they're not ) there certainly needs some more work to be done. Rivers look ridiculously wide. That gawd-awful shadow is still present making the map look like land masses are floating in mid air. Etc....

Hey Matrix Games, how about giving use dates to the images? OR at the least, tell us that your going to post new images?

Thanks.

Pippin · Post by **Pippin** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:37 am

That gawd-awful shadow is still present making the map look like land masses are floating in mid air. Etc....

Well, for the reccord. I tend to like that gawd-awful shadow

anibalbarak · Post by **anibalbarak** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:41 pm

Me too

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:41 pm

I, for three, also really like those colored shadows surrounding each country. Personally, I thought this was the best part about the map. It's a nice added graphic that gives the map a little more contour look. Just my opinion.

YohanTM2 · Post by **YohanTM2** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:41 pm

Gotta agree, love that map

Capitaine · Post by **Capitaine** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:39 am

Um, those screenshots are many years old, and were designed for another game. They are not EiA shots. They were of Matrix's own game, that was abandoned due to the evil plot of Jim Rose/TalonSoft/TakeUToo. So the actual maps will undoubtedly replicate the cities, and only those cities, in the EiA game.

Also, I like the look of the maps in the screenshots. HATED the original EiA things with a passion. Hated the cheap, hand-drawn counters even more. If either thing stayed for this product, I wouldn't buy it. That's a promise!

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 am

Originally posted by Capitaine
Um, those screenshots are many years old, and were designed for another game. They are not EiA shots. They were of Matrix's own game, that was abandoned due to the evil plot of Jim Rose/TalonSoft/TakeUToo. So the actual maps will undoubtedly replicate the cities, and only those cities, in the EiA game.

Also, I like the look of the maps in the screenshots. HATED the original EiA things with a passion. Hated the cheap, hand-drawn counters even more. If either thing stayed for this product, I wouldn't buy it. That's a promise!

You wouldn't buy it? Really? Just cause of that? That's seems a little over the top man. A little too extreme. Not that it matters. Or maybe you were just kidding. LOL. Good one man. Good one.

:rolleyes:

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:24 am

I loved the original EiA map...I even laminated mine. Did it so it'd last longer, and so that we could color the borders of our enlarged/shrunken domains. Laminated the status cards, too...so we could use grease pencils to fill in the numbers.

Russia and Prussia really got ripped off in the original counters...their flags were hideous and nothing near historical...Even Spain got better treatment.

I don't really care for the soldiers standing on plates. Would rather have regular corps markings...Big X for infantry, big Dot for artillery, and Cavalry...guess they'd be stuck with lance pennants.

Guess I'll wait and see, though. Can't be too picky when the game of my dreams lingers over the horizon.

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:50 am

We always laminated the maps. We bought that sticky tack and used them on the corp markers and leaders so that they would stick to the board. This worked really well. It helped prevent them from falling off or arguments on where stuff was and all that. I never laminated the corp sheets, just made copies so you could use them over and over again and the originals never got messed up. The corps markers eventually would start to tear, but hey who cares, it's EiA!!!

As far as the corp representations, I would prefer markers. I hate those little stand up minituares. They give the game a real cheesy feel I think. Like Risk or A&A or something like that. Don't like it at all. But if that is what they decide, that is what they decide.

Capitaine · Post by **Capitaine** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:44 am

Ryta? Extreme? You bet!! I don't expect to buy 1978 artwork in 2003. That's nearly 30 years and EiA was no "Monopoly" classic. Actually, I would've played the game more if the counters had been just one half better. They weren't. They were hideous.

If you think graphics don't matter, well, hello T-Rex!!!

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:13 am

Originally posted by Capitaine
Ryta? Extreme? You bet!! I don't expect to buy 1978 artwork in 2003. That's nearly 30 years and EiA was no "Monopoly" classic. Actually, I would've played the game more if the counters had been just one half better. They weren't. They were hideous.

If you think graphics don't matter, well, hello T-Rex!!!

Ok, breathe and try to lay off the caffeine. Are those screenshots really from 1978?? So you wouldn't play a game becuase of the way it looks? Even if the game is the best Strategy Wargame ever made? Wierd. I guess it is just so different from how I feel that I find it confusing, but everyone has their opinion.

Pippin · Post by **Pippin** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:29 pm

Is it just me, or lately i've been noticing a lot of negative vibes against Talonsoft now that EiA is under development again.
:rolleyes:

Changing the map ??

Changing the map ??

Re: Changing the map ??

Hang in there.