HBK vs KZtonk man: Battle for the Intercontinental Championship

[Harrybanana]

I will cease my whining (at least for now) and admit that the situation for the Axis is much brighter than I thought it would be at this stage of the game. As KZ says the Luftwaffe just seems invincible. A UK Fighter and a TAC were destroyed last turn in Iraq and a further UK Fighter and 2 US TAC were destroyed this turn. I'm not sure if we are at parity in tech though as I am tech level 4 Advanced Aircraft. But concentrating the Luftwaffe in Iraq to counter the USAAF and RAF comes at a price. Namely very slow progress on the Russian Front. We are pretty much at a stand still near Moscow and just a few Russian Corps in the South are doing a commendable job of slowing the Axis advance. We haven't even reached Rostov yet and only one Axis turn of Summer remains. This game is still very much in doubt.

[KorutZelva]

Ah! Looking at the little plane icon I thought it was a level 3 plane. [:D]

If if you have level 4, then it explains the plane Armageddon. I can lag by 1 in tech or in HQ experience but both is essentially doom in this game. No amount of planes or AA can offset that. I guess that lone tech you got in '39 was fighters and not ground attack. Talk about an investment that paid off. I'm going to have to reevaluate my tech priorities in the future... [8D]

[Harrybanana]

That is correct, my early tech investment was in Advanced Aircraft. This has been helped by two research breakthroughs in this tech. On the other hand my Advanced Tanks tech has crawled along with no breakthroughs.

[KorutZelva]

Two breakthrough??? Jesus!!!! [X(]

I don't feel as bad now.

[Taxman66]

I feel little pitty being on the receiving end of level 3 Panzers at the opening of Barbarossa.

The breakthroughs are another strong element of luck in this game. I believe I mentioned this in my suggestion thread where I proposed to soften them. [:'(]

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

I feel little pitty being on the receiving end of level 3 Panzers at the opening of Barbarossa.

The breakthroughs are another strong element of luck in this game. I believe I mentioned this in my suggestion thread where I proposed to soften them. [:'(]

I don't know what to think of them. I like an unsuspected windfall as much as the next guy but I would agree that tech acquisition should be slowed. I could get behind a 'Major advances in tech x, giving a 25% bonus in a tech' instead of breakthroughs. But in the grans scheme of things, I guess breakthrough wouldn't be so bad if a 1 tech gap didn't have such a big impact on result. In Russia, my air went from going 1:1 to 1:4 overnight. Ouch! However, the sea seems ok. It's seems it's those tech that go level 3 and over that seems to make the combat math particularly ruthless and bloody. With them forget a proacted battle of Britain, air groups are dying left and right within 1-2 turns. [:)]

[KorutZelva]

After egypt and morroco, Axis air score another victory chasing the allies from Iraq.

Picture from Iraq in june



USSR is preparing to what is going to be the final battle. Since it's sept 20 1941 this means next turn is probably germany last assured turn of good weather, after that mud season starts. Will they strike now or just continue to tighten the noose for a spring offensive?

Picture from Moskov in june



Overall situation in June

[KorutZelva]

Pro tip: 'uncooperative allies' don't scramble their fighter to protect each other.

My attempt to send USSR fighters in Iran to protect UK-USA airfleet in the area totally didn't work. [:D]

[Sugar]

To act as interceptors the Fighters must: § Be within both Strike and Spotting Range of the hex targeted by the enemy. § Be set to either Auto or Intercept mode. § Have a strength value of at least 5.

Never tried to protect poor Wallies with SU-Fighters, but am. fighters definitely are intercepting in Russia, even if russian forces are attacked; additionally their HQs are fully provided. They are not able to operate in Russia, though.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

Pro tip: 'uncooperative allies' don't scramble their fighter to protect each other.

My attempt to send USSR fighters in Iran to protect UK-USA airfleet in the area totally didn't work. [:D]

I thought they did. But the fighter with the highest efficiency is the one that scrambles first. So a US or UK fighter with higher efficiency (likely because they were supported by an HQ) will intercept before a Russian fighter with lower efficiency, even if the Russian fighter has higher tech and/or more strength.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

I feel little pitty being on the receiving end of level 3 Panzers at the opening of Barbarossa.

The breakthroughs are another strong element of luck in this game. I believe I mentioned this in my suggestion thread where I proposed to soften them. [:'(]

I don't know what to think of them. I like an unsuspected windfall as much as the next guy but I would agree that tech acquisition should be slowed. I could get behind a 'Major advances in tech x, giving a 25% bonus in a tech' instead of breakthroughs. But in the grans scheme of things, I guess breakthrough wouldn't be so bad if a 1 tech gap didn't have such a big impact on result. In Russia, my air went from going 1:1 to 1:4 overnight. Ouch! However, the sea seems ok. It's seems it's those tech that go level 3 and over that seems to make the combat math particularly ruthless and bloody. With them forget a proacted battle of Britain, air groups are dying left and right within 1-2 turns. [:)]

Breakthroughs work both ways and generally even out over the course of the game. I assume you must have gotten a few tech breakthroughs yourself, especially with the Russians who have at least tech 3 Advanced Aircraft, Tanks and Infantry weapons before the end of 42. This is unlike diplomacy on the US and USSR which can greatly favour one side or the other.

However, as you know I am very much in favour of reducing the luck element in the game. So I agree with your proposal to reduce the maximum gain to 25% to slow down tech advances. But only if something is also done to reduce the mobilization gains of diplomacy hits on the US and USSR while also reducing the cost of diplomacy chits for them to 50 MPPs as was suggested in another thread.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Breakthroughs work both ways and generally even out over the course of the game.

They do, they do. Russians were blessed by breakthrough in '42, getting one for inf 3, tank 3 and air 4. USA had a tank breakthrough a long time ago also, and that just about completes the portrait. However a late return to mean won't help much once the die is cast. They also don't have equal value. A USA breakthrough on tanks in 1941 don't do much because USA is not expected to field a significant number of tanks in combat until a couple more years.

Breakthrough don't scale with investment past the first chit so it's not something as scaleable as diplomacy. Diplomacy you can counter via your own chit, working the % down or even eliminating it. Breakthrough you can only 'counter' via spy tech (which usually both sides keeps on top of) or hoping for breakthrough of your own.

Could the mechanism be improved? Yes I guess. I don't mind breakthrough one bit though. That said I do wonder the impact on the combat math if aircraft (and maybe tank) combat ability went up by 0.5 instead of the 1 per tech level (perhaps adding to the 1 tech level max).

[KorutZelva]

I made a mess of the euro mines, cut the norweigian convoy, stopped the swedish convoy, USSR hold everything west and south of Rostov and the UK are still clings to all the southern oil field in iraq-persia but germany still rakes over 1300 mpp. [X(] That doesn't count an inflated italy that has Algeria, egypt, palestine, transjordan and greece diverting those mpp away from germany.

Germany's industry is probably maxed out at 5 but that still seems high for what HarryBanana holds.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Breakthroughs work both ways and generally even out over the course of the game.

They do, they do. Russians were blessed by breakthrough in '42, getting one for inf 3, tank 3 and air 4. USA had a tank breakthrough a long time ago also, and that just about completes the portrait. However a late return to mean won't help much once the die is cast. They also don't have equal value. A USA breakthrough on tanks in 1941 don't do much because USA is not expected to field a significant number of tanks in combat until a couple more years.

Germany starts with tech level 1 Advanced Aircraft and I believe Russia starts with tech 0. So if Russia is now equal to Germany in this tech I can only assume that it received at least 2 and more likely 3 tech breakthroughs in this tech.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

I made a mess of the euro mines, cut the norweigian convoy, stopped the swedish convoy, USSR hold everything west and south of Rostov and the UK are still clings to all the southern oil field in iraq-persia but germany still rakes over 1300 mpp. [X(] That doesn't count an inflated italy that has Algeria, egypt, palestine, transjordan and greece diverting those mpp away from germany.

Germany's industry is probably maxed out at 5 but that still seems high for what HarryBanana holds.

I wouldn't go so far as to say you made a "mess" of the euromines. They have all come back on line, albeit perhaps not yet at full strength and the Norwegian Convoys are running again as well. But I don't disagree with you at all that German industry can become way overpowered and IMHO US industry is underpowered compared to historical. It is I believe a design choice to give the Axis an equal chance to win the War; a chance which they did not have historically. Not saying I agree with this design choice (I don't) but we are probably stuck with it.

[Taxman66]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

I wouldn't go so far as to say you made a "mess" of the euromines. They have all come back on line, albeit perhaps not yet at full strength and the Norwegian Convoys are running again as well. But I don't disagree with you at all that German industry can become way overpowered and IMHO US industry is underpowered compared to historical. It is I believe a design choice to give the Axis an equal chance to win the War; a chance which they did not have historically. Not saying I agree with this design choice (I don't) but we are probably stuck with it.

If you made the industry (and other factors) more historical then you wind up having to change the victory conditions. It would all be about when the Axis fall, not 'if'.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

I wouldn't go so far as to say you made a "mess" of the euromines. They have all come back on line, albeit perhaps not yet at full strength and the Norwegian Convoys are running again as well. But I don't disagree with you at all that German industry can become way overpowered and IMHO US industry is underpowered compared to historical. It is I believe a design choice to give the Axis an equal chance to win the War; a chance which they did not have historically. Not saying I agree with this design choice (I don't) but we are probably stuck with it.

C'mon, half-strength counts as 'a mess' and they only recouped because I switch to drain nearby capital cities. [:D].

If I look at Taifun vs BSPInisback game in crispy mod (september 43) and compare it to our current situation Germany +Causcasus +Turkey -algeria -egypt -Vichy -Spain, earns 1000 mpp. This feels about right.

I wonder if Bill and Hubert would be willing to share the Axis win-loss ratio as per the last patch. [:)]

September around moskov

[Harrybanana]

It is now early 1943. But here is what the Russian Front looked like on July 19, 1942. Since this date the Axis have captured Kalinin, Kaluga, Tula and Bryansk in the North and are now pressed up against the outer fortifications of Moscow. In the South Rostov has been captured and the Axis are within a few hexes of Stalingrad. Meanwhile the Allies have been driven out of the Middle East and the Axis are at the gates of Tehran.

But Russian ground strength has grown greatly over the Fall and Winter and the Russians are the equal of the Germans in the important techs of Infantry Weapons, Advanced Tanks and Advanced Aircraft. The Western Allies have regained most of their air strength lost in Iraq. Where will they attack/invade? Only France lies within range of their aircraft.

[Harrybanana]

The Front around Moscow as of my December 1942.

[KorutZelva]

Front lines in december 1942



Currently playing april 43... War is about to hot in the east.

Germany and Italy trying to get to the caucasus by the south. USSR making small incursions in between Moskov and Rostov, scouting the defensive lines. Amphibious landing at melitopol to steal the mine a few turn. I had cut all the rail line except the one going through stalino for to the army group targeting stalingrad and it got hit by a partisan supply... didn't seem to affect supply to the units on the front one bit however...