HBK vs KZtonk man: Battle for the Intercontinental Championship

[KorutZelva]

Bad weather in the east continues to slows any intention of doing a major offensive. Germany destroy its first bit of fortification around moskov putting them with 2 Hexes of the western part of the city, the russian counter attack with artillery and an armoured offensive, destroying the offending heavy tank and reoccupying the hex.

After a long lull, Germany finally resumes major raiding operation of the allies convoy line, knocking out Canada and Saudi convoys.

Allies continue to play an aggressive diplo game, chipping at the swedede. After a major diplohit, Sweden is at 78% pro-ally.

[Taifun]

Enjoying greatly this AAR. Thanks for all the info learning a lot. Could one of you please post the current headcount and the graph of Great Britain convoy U-boot MPPs losses?

[Harrybanana]

Your wish is our command. Here are the Charts showing UK Convoy losses to raiders and current headcount as of my last completed turn of June 25, 1943. On this turn Moscow was captured. Of the big three USSR Cities only Stalingrad remains in Russian hands.

As you can see the U-Boat war has been a big disappointment for the German High Command. Very few UK MPPs were sunk. But after the capture of the Middle East does it really matter?

As you can also see the current number of Axis land combat units is off the table (though just barely at 152). Many of these are garrisons, but it is still ridiculously high.

[Harrybanana]

Here is the situation around Moscow a couple turns ago (May 11, 1943) at the end of the Axis turn.

[Harrybanana]

Stalingrad area, also May 11, 1943.

[Harrybanana]

Finally the Border between Persia and the USSR.

[Harrybanana]

KZ mentioned earlier the "cookie cutter" script to be followed by the Axis to almost guarantee victory. I myself fell victim to this same script in a previous game against an expert player (my only loss as the Allies so far) and have tried to duplicate it in this game. After KZs very successful (and I still whine lucky) uber-diplomacy on the US I truly did not think I could pull it off. But barring some miracle on KZ's part or some major gaffe on my part (which I am not ruling out yet) I don't think I can be stopped. We will know in a few more turns.

[KorutZelva]

Yepp... When I couldn't hold on both Casanblanca and Iraq, I knew my goose was cooked. I needed one (preferably both) to stay in it. [:)]

I couldn't convert the allies economic advantages into success on the field. I had early on decided to go 'all air' with the allies... which I still think was the right call in this situation. I did overdo it on the USA bombers, I should have swapped a couple of them in favor of more fighters. A timely axis diplohit on the USA kept them just long enough out of the war so that by the time they had arrived in Iraq, Axis supply was no longer critical. However, I should have not committed that many troop to egypt and went to turtle in Iraq to fight on more advantageous supply situation. When I was swimming in money I got a bit cocky thinking I could hold on everything just by sheer economic muscle. That plus I had wrongly assumed Axis air was back in Europe for Barbarossa. [:D]

[KorutZelva]

1-2-3!

HBK pins the KZtonk man and is the new Intercontinental champion!

[Sugar]

Congratulations to the winner and many thx for a very entertaining AAR to the both of you!

But one last remark: KZ, you didn`t decide to go "all air" early on, you decided to go "all diplo". Maybe uber diplo is not that uber?

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Congratulations to the winner and many thx for a very entertaining AAR to the both of you!

But one last remark: KZ, you didn`t decide to go "all air" early on, you decided to go "all diplo". Maybe uber diplo is not that uber?

What I meant by that was that the decision to have the allied armies mostly air based was made early. UK went with fighters and AA, relying on starting land units (and spawns) for support. USA maxed out their air unit before building any land ones.

Uber diplo gave is what this dude a fighting chance against a guy higher up on the food chain. You would have thought that HB's lamentations for the 2 year and a half of the AAR would have made it abundantly evident.

[Sugar]

Uber diplo gave is what this dude a fighting chance against a guy higher up on the food chain. You would have thought that HB's lamentations for the 2 year and a half of the AAR would have made it abundantly evident.

Sorry, if I don`t get what you mean, english isn't my first language. Do you mean HB to be superior to you, so that uber was providing a better chance for you? And that HB's "lamento" was proving it to be right?

If so, and from what I´ve noticed so far, the only prove was the brit. weakness in NA following those heavy investments, and the am. appearance still too late to turn the tide, although you achieved more hits than expected.

Your 2. strat. could be far more successfull, if you`d use all available aircraft and navy to destroy Axis` deployment in NA.

[Harrybanana]

Thank you very much for the game KZ, you were an excellent opponent. If it is any consolation to you I was finished by 42 in the game I played against this Axis Strategy; at least you made it to 43.

This Axis Strategy is essentially as follows:

1. Prioritize Advanced Aircraft tech and also research Long range aircraft (more important than many people think)
2. Build the Manstein HQ ASAP,
3. Build all your Fighters, Tanks, TAC and, if possible, HQs prior to DAK arrival (I believe this is pretty standard anyway),
4. Get Spain on the Axis side, preferably by diplomacy,
5. Send Manstein to Libya to join Rommel (well actually even before Rommel arrives)
6. Use the Luftwaffe on mass, first to take Malta, then Egypt, then Russia. If necessary also use the Luftwaffe on mass to take Algeria and the Middle East.
7. Don't be afraid to "operate" the Luftwaffe to wherever it is needed.
8. Don't rush Barbarossa. Generally speaking, the only time Axis MPP production is greater than Allied MPP production is from the fall of France until Barbarossa.
9. When using the Axis Air Force, generally concentrate on destroying the enemy's fighters and HQs first, not the front line units. I often neglect this one myself.
10.Once Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad have been captured, destroy whatever unit is in London with the massed Luftwaffe and then drop a paratrooper. Game Over.

Once Spain is Axis and Egypt and the Middle East conquered, and the Ukraine occupied German MPPs will be 1200+ (provided industry tech has not been neglected).

It was the 4 US diplo hits you got that gave you a fighting chance in this game. But if you couldn't stop this Axis strategy with four Hits than think how much worse it would have been if you only got one or two. In other words I don't think Uber-diplomacy is the counter to this Axis strategy. As I understand it the only counter is to send the entire RN and British Army (including the BEF) to Egypt and attack Italy in Libya the moment it is in the War, while simultaneously attacking its fleets in port. Meanwhile fortify the El Alamein line. This of course means that London might be lost to Sealion. But London is of less importance than Cairo and the Middle East.

[Taifun]

Congratulations to both of you! I really thought that KorutZelva was to hold around Iraq for longer and was surprised that Moscow fell that quick.
From what I have experienced so far this game is Axis tilted. As you mentioned earlier the Axis player has a big advantage that is not historically accurate. Any powerful unrealistic Luftwaffe in North Africa can really hurt the Brits all the way to Saudi Arabia. Spain is another key country that if it joins the Axis is game over.
Thanks again for the entertainment generals!

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Sorry, if I don`t get what you mean, english isn't my first language. Do you mean HB to be superior to you, so that uber was providing a better chance for you? And that HB's "lamento" was proving it to be right?

If so, and from what I´ve noticed so far, the only prove was the brit. weakness in NA following those heavy investments, and the am. appearance still too late to turn the tide, although you achieved more hits than expected.

Your 2. strat. could be far more successfull, if you`d use all available aircraft and navy to destroy Axis` deployment in NA.

It got me to a superior position which I latter squandered.

Some Axis player prefer attacking Russia in the spring in 1941, had he made that choice Egypt would have likely held. Even then, I'm not entirely sure Egypt defence was hopeless had it been in the hands of a more skilled player. For example, my little incursion in Lybia with the brits meant that my unit were out of position on the counter. I also gave him a free HQ target by leaving it exposed. However, the safer play was definitively to use the vast Brits resource to make a fortress in Iraq.

Send Manstein to Libya to join Rommel (well actually even before Rommel arrives)

I figured you had a second german HQ in there since your air was so far away... I guess he's to blame for the insane kill ratio. I might have under-estimated the urgency to get the HQ tech. [:)]

It was the 4 US diplo hits you got that gave you a fighting chance in this game. But if you couldn't stop this Axis strategy with four Hits than think how much worse it would have been if you only got one or two.

Never expected Uber Diplo to become the new cookie cutter. But getting two hits is still a win, as it also derails Axis tech research and Spain acquisition time table. The difference would be that an egypt defense would definitively be out of the question.

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Sorry, if I don`t get what you mean, english isn't my first language. Do you mean HB to be superior to you, so that uber was providing a better chance for you? And that HB's "lamento" was proving it to be right?

If so, and from what I´ve noticed so far, the only prove was the brit. weakness in NA following those heavy investments, and the am. appearance still too late to turn the tide, although you achieved more hits than expected.

Your 2. strat. could be far more successfull, if you`d use all available aircraft and navy to destroy Axis` deployment in NA.

It got me to a superior position which I latter squandered.

Some Axis player prefer attacking Russia in the spring in 1941, had he made that choice Egypt would have likely held. Even then, I'm not entirely sure Egypt defence was hopeless had it been in the hands of a more skilled player. For example, my little incursion in Lybia with the brits meant that my unit were out of position on the counter. I also gave him a free HQ target by leaving it exposed. However, the safer play was definitively to use the vast Brits resource to make a fortress in Iraq.

Send Manstein to Libya to join Rommel (well actually even before Rommel arrives)

I figured you had a second german HQ in there since your air was so far away... I guess he's to blame for the insane kill ratio. I might have under-estimated the urgency to get the HQ tech. [:)]

It was the 4 US diplo hits you got that gave you a fighting chance in this game. But if you couldn't stop this Axis strategy with four Hits than think how much worse it would have been if you only got one or two.

Never expected Uber Diplo to become the new cookie cutter. But getting two hits is still a win, as it also derails Axis tech research and Spain acquisition time table. The difference would be that an egypt defense would definitively be out of the question.

oustanding¡[:)]

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Taifun

Congratulations to both of you! I really thought that KorutZelva was to hold around Iraq for longer and was surprised that Moscow fell that quick.
From what I have experienced so far this game is Axis tilted. As you mentioned earlier the Axis player has a big advantage that is not historically accurate. Any powerful unrealistic Luftwaffe in North Africa can really hurt the Brits all the way to Saudi Arabia. Spain is another key country that if it joins the Axis is game over.
Thanks again for the entertainment generals!

Thanks! Glad people enjoyed! I do my AARs for the people, which is why I try to instill a little dash of showmanship in terms of strategy used. [:D]

After this game and the one vs Taxman I was thinking the Axis had the edge under this patch. I'm glad a player of your caliber echo my sentiment. I wasn't there at launch but I think at some point the allies were considered favored? I'm a bit worried with the impending U-boat change, which would benefit the axis even further. I hope Bill and Hubert will toss the allies a bone to compensate!

[Giovanni705]

One question for you all masters.
How to make sure Spain joins the Axis?
Thanks a lot!

[Sugar]

As you mentioned earlier the Axis player has a big advantage that is not historically accurate.

I totally agree. There`s only one point where and when to stop the Axis, that`s in autumn 40 in Libya, like HB already suggested. The key city is Cairo, not Bagdad.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

Some Axis player prefer attacking Russia in the spring in 1941, had he made that choice Egypt would have likely held.

Not having played me before KZ you had no reason to believe that I would not attack Russia in the Spring of 41. But IMHO attacking Russia any sooner then you have to (ie when it's mobilization reaches about 80) is a big mistake. Sure Russia will be stronger the longer you wait, but Germany will be even stronger as prior to Barbarossa it will be out producing Russia by a wide margin. Also if it waits to attack Russia the Axis can in the meantime employ the Luftwaffe to gain other objectives, like Egypt and the Middle East or, if necessary, Algeria. Also as soon as you attack Russia US mobilization begins to increase. Not relevant in our game of course, where the US entered the War before Russia, but an important factor in most games.