Density penalty for attacker

[Cabido]

Is the density penalty applied to the attacker too? If I select a stack marked with the red circle and attack with all units, for instance, will the "at least 2" multiplier be applied to the attacker losses?

[snoopy100]

i read 13.10 in the manual as applying for attacking and defending stacks,but i may be wrong. 13.10 is ambiguously worded as usual in wargame manuals/rulebooks

[Cabido]

ORIGINAL: snoopy100

i read 13.10 in the manual as applying for attacking and defending stacks,but i may be wrong. 13.10 is ambiguously worded as usual in wargame manuals/rulebooks

Yes, it isn't clear. The manual states:

"In many cases you
can exceed this target density by piling units into
a location. This may be the only way to effectively
concentrate for an attack in some Scenarios, but
there is a cost. "

I can understand it as piling units in preparation for attack, not necessarily when attacking. I understand combat as taking place in the hex of the defender, so I think that the concentration on the hex of the attacker won't be considered in combat, unless one attacks with enough units so as to reproduce the high density state in the hex of the defender (or the battle area, as one wishes).

Intuitively, I would say it is considered, in this case, from observing losses when playing Singapore 42 as the Japanese. We can't avoid very high densities in the beginning and my losses were high when bombarded and when attacking with a whole pile of units.

[TheeWarLord]

My understanding is that the penalties apply to both attacker/defender if you are "overstacked"

[Cabido]

ORIGINAL: TheeWarLord

My understanding is that the penalties apply to both attacker/defender if you are "overstacked"

I believe so too, but consider this:

Suppose an attacker has 3 big units (relative to the scale of the scenario). If he has only one unit in the hex, a yellow-green density circle is shown; if he has 2 units stacked, a yellow circle; with 3 units stacked, an orange. Let's suppose all three units are stacked and he has an orange circle being shown. Now, if he attacks with only one of these units?

Since I believe the attack takes place in the defender's hex, I believe he'll get the yellow-green indicator penalty (1.0 - 1.4); if attacking with all three units, the orange indicator penalty (1.7 - 2.0).
Yet, it is possible that the attacker hex indicator is considered for counterbattery fire, independently of the units taking part in the attack.

The scenarios I've played with very high densities made it seem that the attacker suffers the penalties also, but I'm not sure about the above situation.