The Gamiest Game in Town - EL (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)

[el lobo]

So why haul-up the white flag now?

Basically, I have seen the writing on the wall.

Tactically:

With the arrival of Allied reinforcements on Formosa, Formosa has now become a POW camp for me. With the Naval forces he has there now I will not be able to evacuate.

The only reinforcements I have are one and two-thirds IDs in Korea and one ID coming out of Burma. They will not be able to get to Formosa and I doubt they would be enough to make any difference if they could.

I am on the defensive in China.

I am blocked from my oil and fuel supplies.

Once he turns his 4Es lose on Formosa all air fields will become useless and the ground troop eliminated.

I still have the full KB but the KB does not win wars, boots on the ground do, and I will not have any.

So in about a month or two, I simply won't have much to do game wise.

Personally:

It is hard to believe that we have been playing for three years now plus almost a year getting ready for the game. Lately it has been a little more of a chore to do the turns and you may have noticed my AAR dropping behind. It is time for a change. Rio is more enthused than I but I think he and Captain Haggard too are ready to take a break.

Again, I thank all who offered advise, wisdom and words of encouragement and most of all I thank my great opponents and friends, Rio and Hag-san. They played a bold and nearly flawless game and well deserve the victory.

It has been a great ride.

El Lobo

[PaxMondo]

As Lowpe noted, your game skill increased markedly as you progressed. Suggestion: go back and re-read your AAR and particularly from mid42 to mid-43 think through how you might react differently now as compared to what you did.

You now understand the awe (and fear) IJ players have of the 4E's, and why they take a lot of measures against them.

You were in an excellent position in late '43 with the allies seriously contemplating surrender ... review that portion of the game to understand how they came back and what you might have done to prevent that comeback.

Enjoyed you here in the forums. Hope that we will continue to see you.

Take Care!

[GetAssista]

El Lobo, congratulations on the completed game! That was a great AAR interesting to watch from start to finish. And as Pax duly noted it made you a better player!
Also you put some torps into Allied DS CVs in 44 [;)] a feat that few JFBs achieve.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Also you put some torps into Allied DS CVs in 44 [;)] a feat that few JFBs achieve.

+1

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


You were in an excellent position in late '43 with the allies seriously contemplating surrender ...

Take Care!

Pax-

The Allies never considered surrendering.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Enjoyed you here in the forums. Hope that we will continue to see you.

Take Care!

Thanks. And thanks again for your help.

One thing I really enjoyed playing Japan was the production end. I have started playing around with a mod as that is kind of the same genre and I am already leaning more things about the game itself. I am also contemplating playing the Ironman tiers.

Now that I have a little more time I'll be watching more AARs also. Perhaps I will drop-in and help-out Mike. [:D]

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

El Lobo, congratulations on the completed game! That was a great AAR interesting to watch from start to finish. And as Pax duly noted it made you a better player!
Also you put some torps into Allied DS CVs in 44 [;)] a feat that few JFBs achieve.

Thanks and thanks again for your help.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

Pax-

The Allies never considered surrendering.

Best Regards,

-Terry

I can vouch for that. I can not recall a time that Rio or Haggard were ever mentally down or concerned about their position in this game, and remember, we weren't ever looking at VPs.

Rio always had a very strong plan and the confidence to carry it through. I would say now that after sharpening his teeth on my old bones, there is not a Japanese player that can come close to beating him. I say that partially because we have discussed his “new and improved plan” a little, which of course I would never reveal.

That is one AAR I would love to read.

[el lobo]

For adarbrauner. (Last turn)

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


You were in an excellent position in late '43 with the allies seriously contemplating surrender ...

Take Care!

Sorry Terry, I must have confused threads.

Pax-

The Allies never considered surrendering.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


You were in an excellent position in late '43 with the allies seriously contemplating surrender ...

Take Care!

Sorry Terry, I must have confused threads.

Pax-

The Allies never considered surrendering.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Pax-

No worries.

There has been many times when I have wanted to quote someone, but can't remember whom was the author.

One of the best statements I have read in reading AARs was something like, "Playing WITPAE is a lifestyle." And, I'll be damned if I can remember whom said that.

-Best Regards,

-Terry

[CaptHaggard]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo



Sorry Terry, I must have confused threads.

Pax-

The Allies never considered surrendering.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Pax-

No worries.

There has been many times when I have wanted to quote someone, but can't remember whom was the author.

One of the best statements I have read in reading AARs was something like, "Playing WITPAE is a lifestyle." And, I'll be damned if I can remember whom said that.

-Best Regards,

-Terry

Rio—

I think you might be thinking of wargamr.

I wrote something along the lines that I was looking forward to playing and WitPAE seemed like a great "hobby."

He shot back: "WitPAE is not a 'hobby'. It's a lifestyle."

Truer words were never spoken.

*Salute*

Hag

[Rio Bravo]

Captain Haggard-

That's it.

Your pal,

-Terry

[pontiouspilot]

Thanks for the effort. An AAR as a newbie is a tough go.

Tell me why you didn't pounce with everything you had on the Formosa gamble? I thought Rio was into the sauce when he made that decision. That was unorthodox to say the least and I predicted it would be an Island too Far. I personally still subscribe to the theory that Japan must try to engage the US fleet in a major "all in" engagement at a geographic location convenient to Japan, at a time prior to all the Essex class arriving.

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Thanks for the effort. An AAR as a newbie is a tough go.

Tell me why you didn't pounce with everything you had on the Formosa gamble? I thought Rio was into the sauce when he made that decision. That was unorthodox to say the least and I predicted it would be an Island too Far. I personally still subscribe to the theory that Japan must try to engage the US fleet in a major "all in" engagement at a geographic location convenient to Japan, at a time prior to all the Essex class arriving.

pontiouspilot-


El Lobo can probably answer this question better than I can.

However, I can advise you as to what Japan was facing at Formosa as follows:

1.) 325 Land-Based Thunderbolts at Takao, Formosa; 64 Land-Based Spitfires at Kagi, Formosa; 79 Land-Based Hellcats at Pescadores; and 144 Land-Based Corsair split between Amoy and Tsinkiang, China. A total of 612 Land-Based Fighters flying Escort for Dive and Torpedo Bombers; flying CAP and LRcap.

2.) 288 Land-Based Dauntless Dive Bombers; 112 Land-Based Helldiver Dive Bombers; and 36 Land-Based Avenger Torpedo Bombers at Takao, Kagi, and Pescadores. A total of 436 Land-Based Naval Attack Bombers.

3.) 300 Land-Based Heavy Level Bombers based in China and well within the reach of Formosa.

4.) 25 Aircraft Carriers with the following compliment: 594 Fighters; 349 Dauntless Dive Bombers; and 227 Avenger Torpedo Bombers.

5.) 4 substantial Surface Combat Groups; each group consisting of 2 BB, 4 CA, 3 CL, 1 CLAA; and 8 Fletcher DD.

6.) 9 Surface Combat "Raider" Groups; each consisting of 4 Fletcher DDs.

7.) Captain Haggard flooded the vicinity of Formosa with swarms of Submarines; swarms of PT Boats; and he also had several Surface Combat Groups.


El Lobo did attack the Allied Fleet with the KB. He put 5 torpedoes into 5 carriers; sinking CVL Belleau Woods, but causing only minor damage to 4 CV (none of them on fire, no heavy damage; only minor damage). He lost approximately 30 to 40% of his KB Aircraft (I am guessing here, but think I am fairly close). El Lobo also threw his Land-Based Fighters, Dive Bombers, and Torpedo Bombers at the Allies. He shot down Allied Aircraft and he damaged Allied Ships. In return his Land-Based Aircraft were shredded by Allied CAP and LRcap.

As you may readily perceive form the above, upon the Allied reinforcement of Formosa, the Allies owned the Air and the Sea surrounding Formosa.

Prior to the Allies reinforcing Formosa, the Allies had a little under 2,000 ground AV. The Allies barely managed to suffer El Lobo's ground attacks with over 7,500 Japanese AV. The Allies held Kagi, Takao, and hex 85,66 just south of Takao. After the Allied reinforcement of Takao, the Allies had approximately 4,500 ground AV on Formosa hunkered down behind a size 4 Fort at Kagi, a size 7 Fort at Takao, and in the jungle at hex 85,66. At that point, Japan's 7,500 AV was not enough to shove the Allies into the sea.

In conclusion, it wasn't as if El Lobo did not come after the Allies at Formosa. He came hard and strong with Ground Forces, both Land-Based and Carrier Based Aircraft, and with his surface Combat Groups. Japan was simply overwhelmed by Allied Air and Naval firepower; and the Allies had sufficient ground force AV to hold Kagi, Takao, and hex 85,66.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo
However, I can advise you as to what Japan was facing at Formosa as follows:

This question was probably about The First Coming at Formosa [:)] I also had an impression that El Lobo was somehow shy to go all in crushing that invasion

[el lobo]

Thanks pontiouspilot.

The lack of a carrier battle on the first Allied armada to Formosa was basically due to a newbe mistake by me that precluded a proper attack.

I apologize for not posting this in my AAR. I had the KB on stand-by near Daito Shoto and I had my Zeros set to a close CAP and I forgot to re-set them as he got closer. Rio sailed by and my carriers reacted toward them by a couple of hexes and Rio's carriers reacted back. That was OK but it put me closer to his carriers than I wanted.

My TBs flew without escorts and got slaughtered. Had I had my zeros set properly, that could have been a major battle. I can't recall off-hand what my DBs did.

As you can see, I did a little better on his way back to Guam.

Does that answer your question?

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

I personally still subscribe to the theory that Japan must try to engage the US fleet in a major "all in" engagement at a geographic location convenient to Japan, at a time prior to all the Essex class arriving.

A nice theory, but Pearl Harbor, my only choice before Essex, wasn't convenient for me. [:)]

[pontiouspilot]

OK...I missed this rxn. It certainly didn't seem like a major attack at time...to me at least. I was primarily reading Rio's AAR. It was the exit from the initial landing that I thought would cost Rio his gonads. I presumed that your LBA would have attrited his CV air arm and mission capability sufficiently that an inviting target would be left. I certainly get why such an attack now is pointless.

All said, congrats on an interesting story.

[PaxMondo]

Reading the other AAR, will take me a while. Early on you were doing REALLY well [:)], except for Clark and Batavia [:@]. In both cases you didn't bring enough and it really cost you. I suspect at both sites that it was simply a case of being new and not having a better idea of what to expect.


The other problem you had early on was your progress in China, after a really good start, slowed dramatically. Again, from the AAR I can't quite tell why. Did you need time to recover after Sian?

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

... you didn't bring enough and it really cost you. I suspect at both sites that it was simply a case of being new and not having a better idea of what to expect.

That is exactly it in a nut-shell. I did this at a few smaller bases also.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

The other problem you had early on was your progress in China, after a really good start, slowed dramatically. Again, from the AAR I can't quite tell why. Did you need time to recover after Sian?

Not necessarily time to recover but to move from Sian to Kienko. And then Rio made a big stand in the hex east of Kienko and it took awhile to break through. As mentioned prior, I should have focused on Chungking, not Sian.