Pacific at War v.3.63 Jorge Allied Larry Japs

[larryfulkerson]

I did a "close" and then chose "save and close" and the game engine wrote a SAL file to my hard disk and I zipped it up and attached it here below just in case you guys wanted an indepth look at the game. Review the reports and dialogs and take a look at the units, move some of them around maybe. I used the password "password" without the quotes on the challenge if you need it.

[larryfulkerson]

I had about 784 sea lift left so I thought I'd spend it on moving a special naval landing force to Rabaul and landing there. I've seen some Allied troop transports so I'm pretty sure there's units headed this way.

[jarraya]

I have a new move from Larry and before I even open it, here are some thoughts on my side of the game. I'll try not to give too much away in terms of strategy, and of course to anyone reading this AAR please give me some help! I'm up against Larry, I've never played this scenario before, I know NOTHING about the Pacific campaign and I have no idea how the naval system works in TOAW.

Aside from the destruction of my BBs in Hawaii, Turn 0 and 1 was basically Larry pouring his troops all over the map in mostly unhindered amphibious landings. Some islands I don't even know the name of, so I'm still getting to grips with the gigantic map. Hell, it takes me a minute to scroll across from one end to the other. One thing I've noticed is it's very difficult to play this one by moving units in OOB order. The OOB jumps from China to Malay to Australia and then back to China, the problem being that by the time I get back to China I've forgotten what I was trying to do there! So I'm having to plan my moves by mini-theatres, and I'm thinking that the best way to do this is by dividing the map as the Allies did during the war. I haven't yet decided on the best way to eat this elephant - again, any advice is appreciated.

I have the basis of a plan, but it relies quite heavily on understanding how the naval system works. I've made some moves with my ships, and I find sometimes that they just disappear. I'm guessing they were killed by aircraft, but I have no idea. And other times I approach a group of ships and mine take damage but I have no idea if I caused any damage to him. Kind of weird. I'm also not sure what a Sea Interdiction mission does for planes. If they are set to this mission, does that mean that they are unable to defend themselves against fighters? After all, most fighter-bombers of the era became fighters after dropping their bombs! Help anyone?

The reason I need to get to grips with the system quickly is because my plan, like the Allies, relies heavily on my carriers.

1) control of the seas - ie kill the carriers. Early plan is to hunt down his carriers with mine. I'm not going to use the BBs for land support just yet.
2) Bomb strategic targets in Japan. I want to get the airbases that give me the range to bomb Japan as early as possible. TOAW supply is nothing like real life, so as long as the Japanese control supply points they get everything (includes unlimited supply of fuel and oil), so I need to hurt his supply ASAP.
3) Aggressive and overwhelming amphibious assaults - land on the islands I want to take with a lot of forces and take them quickly. Attrition is the enemy here because supply is gonna by an issue.
4) Eventually land in Japan - I want to take Japan.

I don't yet know how I am going to use my land forces, and I need to see what air assets I have available. I think the first turns will be just trying not to bleed too much whilst causing casualties. He's gonna grab some of the key islands, I have no choice there.

Appreciate anyone's thoughts!

[larryfulkerson]

I'm up against Larry,

I don't consider myself an expert, maybe just pretty good. I haven't worn a game in quite a while. Ian keeps wiping the floor with me.

...I've never played this scenario before,

It takes some getting used to I admit. And it's not easy to get from one spot to another if it's a far piece away. I zoom up and move the map and then zoom in again.

...I know NOTHING about the Pacific campaign

It's fairly straight forward actually. You need to get your bombers within range of Tokyo, well, the home island cities, and bomb the Industry there. To get the bases you need for that you're going to have to island hop ever closer to Tokyo with each hop. You'll have to support each hop with your planes and your ships. It's important to provide support for each hop. Bring overwhelming force and use the carriers to give a CAP until you can fly some LBA into the AO.

...and I have no idea how the naval system works in TOAW.

It's not all that hard actually. I'll post something to show how it works.
EDIT: AS a matter of fact there's an article that covers Naval Warfare. Here's the link:
tm.asp?m=4292790

[hingram]

Allies: One possible strategy might be to do nothing until your forces build up enough to make some moves. You have to defend Hawaii, India and Australia and that's about it. In the meantime, keep your air asset ranges close to home. Make the Japanese extend themselves and come to you. Your bombers have very little to do in the early times.

Don't make the mistake that we did in WW2 and waste assets on targets that don't mean much.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what Bangkok looks like now. The Japs are meeting the Indian divisions and we're fighting over the rail line. I'm trying to repair it as the front moves south slowly.

[Cfant]

@devon: about disappearing ships: If your ships were intercepted by air or sea it is shown at the combat report. Just look there. One more thing: Look in the editor, if the naval attrition divider is set to 0. If this is the case, your ships will most likely become oneshot-killed if entering the combat range of an enemy naval unit of equal range.

Even if not - if you swim into the larger range of an enemy, your ships may be sunk without beeing able to return fire. So move with caution!

[larryfulkerson]

I flew some paratroops up to the Burma road intersection where it crosses the major river and broke the bridge and now they are headed west for some more bridges yet.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what the PI looks like now. I've cornered a partisan in the valley and I'm going to surround it and kill it. The rest of the troops are fighting their way to Manila and my BB's turned yellow so they need some rest and the other ships are just CA's and CL's and they don't throw much of a shell when it comes to bombardment. I've driven the BB's over to Cam Ranh Bay to rest and they should be ready to go in a couple of turns. I've got more divisions in the home islands ready to sail down here to the PI and land somewhere but I'm not sure it would help as much as them landing somewhere else. Like Balikpapan or Tarakan. I've got about 35K of sea lift cap. left and there's at least 5 divisions in the home islands ready to sail, I just need a good target for them.

I've watched the playback and I saw some Allied troops being sailed into the New Caledonia area recently. I've got to start populating the New Ireland group before the Allies get there first.

I've also got Java and Sumatra to sundue yet. And I haven't even started landing in Borneo where there's the refinery at Miri and the refineries at Balikpapan and Tarakan.

[larryfulkerson]

I thought it might be advantageous to repair the railroad from Manila to Legaspi just to help the supply flow to the rest of the island. I brought in three new engineer units to help with the repairs. They are Naval engineers and they will come in handy for the eventual takedown of Manila.

[larryfulkerson]

It was thought that moving units to the island chain near Rabaul might be a good idea so it was attempted and despite multiple interceptions by Allied PBY's I managed to get a unit on the New Georgia island and I captured all three airfields on the island. Now I need to get some airplanes on the ielsnd for a CAP and hopefully the next unit(s) to transit the area won't be intercepted so many times.

[thomasharvey]

ORIGINAL: jarraya

I have a new move from Larry and before I even open it, here are some thoughts on my side of the game. I'll try not to give too much away in terms of strategy, and of course to anyone reading this AAR please give me some help! I'm up against Larry, I've never played this scenario before, I know NOTHING about the Pacific campaign and I have no idea how the naval system works in TOAW.

Aside from the destruction of my BBs in Hawaii, Turn 0 and 1 was basically Larry pouring his troops all over the map in mostly unhindered amphibious landings. Some islands I don't even know the name of, so I'm still getting to grips with the gigantic map. Hell, it takes me a minute to scroll across from one end to the other. One thing I've noticed is it's very difficult to play this one by moving units in OOB order. The OOB jumps from China to Malay to Australia and then back to China, the problem being that by the time I get back to China I've forgotten what I was trying to do there! So I'm having to plan my moves by mini-theatres, and I'm thinking that the best way to do this is by dividing the map as the Allies did during the war. I haven't yet decided on the best way to eat this elephant - again, any advice is appreciated.

I have the basis of a plan, but it relies quite heavily on understanding how the naval system works. I've made some moves with my ships, and I find sometimes that they just disappear. I'm guessing they were killed by aircraft, but I have no idea. And other times I approach a group of ships and mine take damage but I have no idea if I caused any damage to him. Kind of weird. I'm also not sure what a Sea Interdiction mission does for planes. If they are set to this mission, does that mean that they are unable to defend themselves against fighters? After all, most fighter-bombers of the era became fighters after dropping their bombs! Help anyone?

The reason I need to get to grips with the system quickly is because my plan, like the Allies, relies heavily on my carriers.

1) control of the seas - ie kill the carriers. Early plan is to hunt down his carriers with mine. I'm not going to use the BBs for land support just yet.
2) Bomb strategic targets in Japan. I want to get the airbases that give me the range to bomb Japan as early as possible. TOAW supply is nothing like real life, so as long as the Japanese control supply points they get everything (includes unlimited supply of fuel and oil), so I need to hurt his supply ASAP.
3) Aggressive and overwhelming amphibious assaults - land on the islands I want to take with a lot of forces and take them quickly. Attrition is the enemy here because supply is gonna by an issue.
4) Eventually land in Japan - I want to take Japan.

I don't yet know how I am going to use my land forces, and I need to see what air assets I have available. I think the first turns will be just trying not to bleed too much whilst causing casualties. He's gonna grab some of the key islands, I have no choice there.

Appreciate anyone's thoughts!

Hi jarraya

Larry and I did an AAR on PAW late
last year at this link: tm.asp?m=4379081&mpage=1&key=


The main thing to do is put all fighters on air superiority and all other aircraft on sea interdiction. Care needs to be taken in placing your anti ship aircraft. Those are defined as any aircraft with an anti ship value of 120 or more and need to be placed where Japanese ships or troops at sea are likely to pass within their range.

Keep the US carriers out of harms way unless there is an easy strike that can be done where you withdraw after the strike in the same turn with no chance of enemy sea interdiction strikes. Hide the US carriers and take most of the anti ship aircraft and put them on an island for an attack rather than rising the carriers. Once you receive more carriers you can move forward and plan to have fleets that have over 1000 fighters as CAP. You will need them. Later in the war place at least half of all aircraft on carriers as fighters. Marine air units can be placed on carriers and once a carrier is lost you will have extra naval aircraft. Put them on islands and move forward.

The Japanese can run wild for the first few months, after that they run the risk of heavy losses to continue with that. The Allies can sit back and relax knowing they will crush the Japanese eventually. The allies should be forced to fight early for political reasons but that is not done in this scenario.

Hide the British fleet until late 1943. They will only get sunk facing the Japanese for no purpose. In the real war the British fleet was withdrawn to Madagascar until late in the war.

Good luck!

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what's going on in South China now. I'm fighting the Chinese for the railroad and he doesn't want to give it up. There wouldn't be any fighting if he would just hand over the railroad. I'd like to push up to the Ledo road to cut the flow of supply to China.

[jarraya]

Larry,
Did you see that strange "Nuclear bombardment" in the last combat report? I've got a screenshot of it at home that I'll post later.
J

[jarraya]

Thank you for that @thomasharvey. I'm still struggling with the naval system, I think it's a bit unbalanced. For example, there are instances where about 30 or 40 bombers are able to take on a naval task force of 6 destroyers, 3 cruisers and a fully laden carrier with 60+ fighters and sink many ships whilst taking only 7 or 8 losses! I don't think the game takes into account the AA from the ships and it only does some very basic calculation on air to air combat for the fighters.

Also, my carrier with a full squad of fighters on air superiority was unable to see 10 attack aircraft coming and took a hit which damaged it above 75% and now all the aircraft from that carrier have disappeared, including the bombers, but I have no idea where they went. Does that mean they all just ditched into the ocean or were destroyed?

Looking forward to see how this develops.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: jarraya
Larry,
Did you see that strange "Nuclear bombardment" in the last combat report? I've got a screenshot of it at home that I'll post later.
J

We had a nuclear bombardment and I missed it? Yes, I'd like to see a screenshot of that. That could mean we have a problem in the scenario. It hasn't caused much of a problem as far as I can tell.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: jarraya
Thank you for that @thomasharvey. I'm still struggling with the naval system, I think it's a bit unbalanced. For example, there are instances where about 30 or 40 bombers are able to take on a naval task force of 6 destroyers, 3 cruisers and a fully laden carrier with 60+ fighters and sink many ships whilst taking only 7 or 8 losses! I don't think the game takes into account the AA from the ships and it only does some very basic calculation on air to air combat for the fighters.

Also, my carrier with a full squad of fighters on air superiority was unable to see 10 attack aircraft coming and took a hit which damaged it above 75% and now all the aircraft from that carrier have disappeared, including the bombers, but I have no idea where they went. Does that mean they all just ditched into the ocean or were destroyed?

Looking forward to see how this develops.

Hey there Jorge my friend. If the carrier that took one or more hits dosen't now have room for it's planes they are pushed over the side into the ocean. Like that film clip of the Vietnam-era event where the helicopters that were carrying people from the rooftop of the American Embassy to a waiting jeep carrier in the South China Sea to the carrier deck. When they have another inbound helicopter and no room for it to land they pushed over the side of the deck one of the helicopters that had just landed to make more room for the incomming aircraft. I assume that's the reason. Why else would you push a helicopter over the side?

[jarraya]

Larry,
Here's that strange nuclear strike from the last turn. Location 50,0 is in the black unplayable area. It obviously didn't amount to anything.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: jarraya
Larry,
Here's that strange nuclear strike from the last turn. Location 50,0 is in the black unplayable area. It obviously didn't amount to anything.

That nuclear strike could be a symptom of a bigger problem lurking under the hood. Let's keep a watch for other anomylies.
How do you spell anomylies?

[jarraya]

[/quote]
That nuclear strike could be a symptom of a bigger problem lurking under the hood. Let's keep a watch for other anomylies.
How do you spell anomylies?
[/quote]

Anomalies.
Here's a possible second anomaly. Some of my aircraft numbers look like this:

Not sure if this is good or bad.