Desert War: A Paradigm Shift

[bcgames]

Given feedback on Desert War since March 2018, it is apparent from Player feedback that the ground scale for the game engine needs to be reduced from 3.2 kilometers per hex to something less. It is also apparent that "Operational Level" is not important in the construction of game scenarios--short and sweet is the goal above all other requirements.

Therefore, moving towards achieving a more successful game system that fulfills player-defined parameters, I propose chaning the game scale from 3.2. kilometers to 1-kilometer per hex, and stacking from two battalions, two companies per hex to one battalion + one company per hex, and 4-6 turns per day (depending on daylight available given the season of the year).

I also propose that the GUI be changed to follow "standard" gaming conventions as defined by supporters of Desert War.

What say you on these topics? What does your GUI look like? Be explicit.

[jack54]

Keep in mind I'm just thinking out loud.

With so much about this Game design that I like it is with great trepidation that I suggest:

Keep the Order of Battle "Tree" but name all units and make their icon functional i.e. move to unit on map (same as HQ's work now)

Have ZOC Hotkey option show the dominant "overall" control. What is actually effecting movement or combat.

Add 'flavor elements' to unit pop up... The CRT will continue to govern all battle calculations but a 'guestimate' of how many men and vehicles are functional could add to immersion. (Ageod does this)

A.I help options check boxes I.E. (Recon +1,2,3)# hex increase--- Supply +1,2,3 (adds X percentage to 'overall' supply or per turn variable.)

Please, Please, Please, keep the current FoW

Hotkey that shows overall hex strength...

Scenario variable turn end check box (adds random number of additional turns maybe 1-5)

Scenario's not 'too' short and sweet... Moderate size... 'Rats' seemed kind of small once I got use to things.

Everything is of course MHO

[Okayrun3254]

ORIGINAL: bcgames

Given feedback on Desert War since March 2018, it is apparent from Player feedback that the ground scale for the game engine needs to be reduced from 3.2 kilometers per hex to something less. It is also apparent that "Operational Level" is not important in the construction of game scenarios--short and sweet is the goal above all other requirements.

Therefore, moving towards achieving a more successful game system that fulfills player-defined parameters, I propose chaning the game scale from 3.2. kilometers to 1-kilometer per hex, and stacking from two battalions, two companies per hex to one battalion + one company per hex, and 4-6 turns per day (depending on daylight available given the season of the year).

I also propose that the GUI be changed to follow "standard" gaming conventions as defined by supporters of Desert War.

What say you on these topics? What does your GUI look like? Be explicit.

When going to a 1 km per hex scale, does this mean scenario objectives will change from possibly capturing multiple towns, or villages objectives, to capturing one or more objectives.

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254
When going to a 1 km per hex scale, does this mean scenario objectives will change from possibly capturing multiple towns, or villages objectives, to capturing one or more objectives.

I don't think so. The number of objectives assigned to a side in a scenario depends on the situation it is attempting to portray. For example, if I did The Rats vs The Ram scenario at 1km per hex the only things I would change are the size of the map (3.2 times larger), stacking limits, artillery ranges, etc.; objectives would remain the same.

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: jack54
Keep the Order of Battle "Tree" but name all units and make their icon functional i.e. move to unit on map (same as HQ's work now)

Have ZOC Hotkey option show the dominant "overall" control. What is actually effecting movement or combat.

Add 'flavor elements' to unit pop up... The CRT will continue to govern all battle calculations but a 'guestimate' of how many men and vehicles are functional could add to immersion. (Ageod does this)

A.I help options check boxes I.E. (Recon +1,2,3)# hex increase--- Supply +1,2,3 (adds X percentage to 'overall' supply or per turn variable.)

Please, Please, Please, keep the current FoW

Hotkey that shows overall hex strength...

Scenario variable turn end check box (adds random number of additional turns maybe 1-5)

Scenario's not 'too' short and sweet... Moderate size... 'Rats' seemed kind of small once I got use to things.

Great feedback! Thanks!

Any other GUI-specific changes come to mind?

[Okayrun3254]

I am not sure what GUI means. I like the 1km scale you are describing. I would be very happy to see an eastern front game at this scale. To me, 1km per hex is operational level scale, and 400m per hex could be still considered operational, but getting closer to a tactical scale.

[bcgames]

GUI = Graphical User Interface. Basically the graphics, buttons, windows, etc. used by the player to play/interact with the game.

[Okayrun3254]

ORIGINAL: bcgames

GUI = Graphical User Interface. Basically the graphics, buttons, windows, etc. used by the player to play/interact with the game.

First of all, I think this is a great game, and I like the map graphics.

I have some input. Thanks for giving the players a chance to share our suggestions.


I don't care for the 3D look of the villages and towns. I would prefer a 2D top view look that is in alignment with the other terrain 2D features.
I would like to see more thickness to the unit counters. They look thin to me. I would also like to see rounded edges, and sharper images, and deeper colors. The square counters look unfinished to me. I think these changes would up the immersion level.
I would like to see all pop up windows disappear when clicking a empty hex, and not have to always click the "X".
The ability to click the unit and have an orders screen appear. Having the ability to do orders per unit itself would help with gameplay. I would like to see the unit information box open in the side panel when you click the unit. In summary click unit to change orders, and auto open of unit detailed info in right panel.
I would like to see all the buttons organized at the top of the screen, with pull down menus.

[Saint Ruth]

I can look at those. Some unfortunately are too much work (e.g. rounded counters, you'd think they'd be easy but no!).

I would like to see all pop up windows disappear when clicking a empty hex, and not have to always click the "X".

This on the other hand is easy to do. I'll have a look at the others...

Thanks,
Brian

[Saint Ruth]

You know you can get rid of the pop ups by pressing the spacebar?

[Okayrun3254]

ORIGINAL: Saint Ruth

You know you can get rid of the pop ups by pressing the spacebar?

Okay, thanks.

I like having an order of battle screen. I think it really helps with getting the big picture and planning. It would be very helpful if a player could click a unit icon in the OOB screen and see the detail for that unit.

[Saint Ruth]

Sure, will have a look at that.

[Okayrun3254]

Another thought came to mind while playing a scenario. It would increase the immersion level if each unit had the actual units symbol in the unit window. I notice after a while, I can identify with a units symbol more quickly, and it also adds an historical feel. Also, it would be nice to see the commanders name in the unit window.

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254
...It would increase the immersion level if each unit had the actual units symbol in the unit window..."

Not sure what you are describing here. Do you mean a unit's divisional insignia? Like a 3rd Armored Division patch or 15th Panzer Division insignia? Or NATO symbol or something else?

[Okayrun3254]

ORIGINAL: bcgames

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254
...It would increase the immersion level if each unit had the actual units symbol in the unit window..."

Not sure what you are describing here. Do you mean a unit's divisional insignia? Like a 3rd Armored Division patch or 15th Panzer Division insignia? Or NATO symbol or something else?

Yes, I mean the units divisional insignia, like the 3rd Armored Division Patch or 15th Panzer Division insignia.

[Okayrun3254]

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254

ORIGINAL: bcgames

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254
...It would increase the immersion level if each unit had the actual units symbol in the unit window..."

Not sure what you are describing here. Do you mean a unit's divisional insignia? Like a 3rd Armored Division patch or 15th Panzer Division insignia? Or NATO symbol or something else?

Yes, I mean the units divisional insignia, like the 3rd Armored Division Patch or 15th Panzer Division insignia.

I tend to be more of a visual person, so after I become familiar with a units insignia, I will identify with the symbol. I also like the historical fill to the units insignia.

[bcgames]

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254
Yes, I mean the units divisional insignia, like the 3rd Armored Division Patch or 15th Panzer Division insignia.

Great! This is already in the queue for the Germans. However, this is not a thing universal to all militaries...at least as far as I can see. BUT if anyone can point me to divisional insignia for the Italians, Romanians, and Soviets during WWII circa 1942, I'd appreciate it--and would include them in the next game.

[bcgames]

The current development scale for the Eastern Front Game centers around 3 turns per day (2 day, 1 night). This is a nice scale for Desert War and its corps level treatment. But the Eastern Front has German Army Groups and Soviet Fronts...which consist of armies (not single corps). Operations take months to complete. Should our Eastern Front Game have daily turns? Weekly turns? What would be the most fun to play? What say you?

[bcgames]

What about multiple scales within a single game?

What do you think about Operational Art of War's (TOAW) approach to scenarios and game scale? In TOAW, there is a cornucopia of scenarios on different eras, different theaters of war--with different unit sizes, time scales, and ground scales--all in one happy package (Note: I own 100% of the multitude of publications of this title--love, love, love the game system--GET TOAWIV!!!).

So...with that thought in mind, how about a "TOAW-like" treatment of the Eastern Front 1942 (Stalingrad area of operations and time period) that uses different scale of time, ground scale and units to convey the topic properly (dramatically/historically/topically)? Or must it all be one scale set? What say you?

[Okayrun3254]

ORIGINAL: bcgames

What about multiple scales within a single game?

What do you think about Operational Art of War's (TOAW) approach to scenarios and game scale? In TOAW, there is a cornucopia of scenarios on different eras, different theaters of war--with different unit sizes, time scales, and ground scales--all in one happy package (Note: I own 100% of the multitude of publications of this title--love, love, love the game system--GET TOAWIV!!!).

So...with that thought in mind, how about a "TOAW-like" treatment of the Eastern Front 1942 (Stalingrad area of operations and time period) that uses different scale of time, ground scale and units to convey the topic properly (dramatically/historically/topically)? Or must it all be one scale set? What say you?

I am in favor of this idea. I think the East Front Theatre is a great candidate for multiple scales to represent the different levels of operations. There could be 3km/hex or smaller for large scale, 1km/hex for specific battles like the relief of Stalingrad, and even 400km per hex for fighting in the city of Stalingrad.