Burns vs. Flaviusx

[Manstein63]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Those subs were on raid mode dammit.

This keeps happening.

I don't know why it keeps dropping off the raid mode.

Just a thought,
Could it be that when your opponent searches for your subs & gets a fleet not found message, it somehow triggers changing your raid mode back to fleet.
I only ask because I attacked a German sub unit with a British fleet and got the 'Fleet not Found' message. then I attacked again with a French fleet & was able to sink the u boat unit.
I think one of the problems is that fleets are too easy to spot a possible solution to this would be to relocate the sub unit to another hex after a failed search
Manstein63

[Flaviusx]

No, that is not it.

Again: do this for yourself and save a game with subs set on raid mode, then go back to it and you will find they have been flipped back to fleet mode. And this bug I can only assume is affecting PBEM games as well as hotseat saves.

If you play through, the subs retain their raid mode. Only on saves do they flip over.

[Manstein63]

I will take a look tonight & see if I can confirm it
Manstein63

[Flaviusx]

Two lessons learned from this French campaign:

1. Take the infiltration promotion on some of your panzers. I think this makes it a little easier to force units on hold orders to retreat. This seemed to make a difference in Yugoslavia when I promoted one of my mech units with it.

2. Based on solo testing, I now think it is indeed better to wait until 1940 to take out Belgium once you have 4 or so mobile units and clear weather. But you do want to take out the Netherlands early on, on turn 3.

Grinding your way through Belgium and Northern France during the winter is ferociously expensive. It can be done, I did it, but the cost is painful. And it really doesn't gain you much time at all. With clear weather and more panzers it might take you 5 clear weather turns or so to knock out France even with hold orders.

[Jim D Burns]

5 July 1940

Vichy is formed and fighting ends in France.

With at least 4 air base symbols seen in Northern Denmark, and several naval attack searches looking for my sub failing, it looks like Germany is going to get serious about attacking Norway.

In the Mediterranean, 6 air strikes against my full 30 strength Corps on Malta reduce if from 8 to 6 combat value. No doubt I simply cannot hold Malta, so I choose to evacuate the full Corp to Egypt where it can do some good and not get destroyed for little gain in return. Malta simply cannot hold in game vs. a concerted air attack. Perhaps a fighter unit might help, but Britain simply cannot afford to put one on Malta this early in game.

[Jim D Burns]

19 July 1940

Germany declares war on Norway and manages to sink the British sub on patrol off Oslo, so Norway goes down quick. I contemplated attacking the German fleet with my carriers, but with so much German air power seen in Northern Denmark I decided I'd probably lose a carrier or worse, so refrained from sailing into dangerous waters for now.

Looking around the map I found a massive train of units along the rail line in Yugoslavia along with a good number of Germans on the Greek border. Looks like things are going to get interesting in the Mediterranean very soon.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Two lessons learned from this French campaign:

1. Take the infiltration promotion on some of your panzers. I think this makes it a little easier to force units on hold orders to retreat. This seemed to make a difference in Yugoslavia when I promoted one of my mech units with it.

2. Based on solo testing, I now think it is indeed better to wait until 1940 to take out Belgium once you have 4 or so mobile units and clear weather. But you do want to take out the Netherlands early on, on turn 3.

Grinding your way through Belgium and Northern France during the winter is ferociously expensive. It can be done, I did it, but the cost is painful. And it really doesn't gain you much time at all. With clear weather and more panzers it might take you 5 clear weather turns or so to knock out France even with hold orders.

So, if I am reading you correctly, 10 weeks to destroy France instead of 6, not bad.
How many Panzer / Mechanized corps did you had?

This is pretty much an historical result according to you? May 10th to June 25th

[ncc1701e]

Duplicate post.

[Flaviusx]

I ended up with 4 in France and 2 in Yugoslavia. In a different game with a sitzkrieg, I might just throw all six into France. Yugoslavia could wait.

[Jim D Burns]

2 August 1940

With lots of new German air bases appearing looks like Greece will be attacked this turn. With a full 2 months of clear weather ahead I doubt I can hold Greece for long, Germany is simply too powerful to resist right now. Hopefully I can make him pay for it as he slogs through the mountains though.

[Michael T]

I have the same issue with my subs. Or I did. There's none left now.

[Flaviusx]

Well, the Regia Marina came out to play, possibly suicidaly, but I have a TON of airpower in the Med and think I can turn this into a mutual suicide pact between me and the Royal Navy. Let's see how this goes.

[Flaviusx]

And yes, I even sent out the subs. In fleet mode. On purpose this time!

[Manstein63]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

No, that is not it.

Again: do this for yourself and save a game with subs set on raid mode, then go back to it and you will find they have been flipped back to fleet mode. And this bug I can only assume is affecting PBEM games as well as hotseat saves.

If you play through, the subs retain their raid mode. Only on saves do they flip over.

Flaviusx,
I ran a test and you are quite correct once you have done a save turn in raider mode the ships revert back to Fleet mode when you re-open the game (I assume that it would revert in the other players turn if playing PBEM) The same thing happens with surface fleets. It is a bug of some sort which will need to be dealt with

Manstein63

[Manstein63]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

2 August 1940

With lots of new German air bases appearing looks like Greece will be attacked this turn. With a full 2 months of clear weather ahead I doubt I can hold Greece for long, Germany is simply too powerful to resist right now. Hopefully I can make him pay for it as he slogs through the mountains though.

I was surprised that he attacked Yugoslavia, If he had just attacked Greece & conquered it before March 41 Yugoslavia would join the Axis powers, which given the effort that is going down there, he would be likely to do.
Manstein63

[Flaviusx]

I considered doing Greece alone. The logistics aren't good. Albania isn't a great place to stage an attack from. It would take me the better part of two months just to set it up and that puts me into autumn. It might be doable, but I didn't like it and invite someone else to try this out and see if Tirana can support such a venture.

Also not loving the idea of activating the Bulgarians with all of one (1) corps and no land connection with the Axis.

I am on a time table here and want to knock out Greece fast, which I am going to be able to do via Yugoslavia.

The British swine have done nothing at all in this war and let the poor French take it in the chin and I am sure have the ability to intervene here and complicate a sketchy Greek invasion. It needs to happen fast or not at all.

[Jim D Burns]

16 August 1940

Major fleet actions south of Greece. I suspect my opponent failed to detect a second British carrier group had deployed to the eastern Mediterranean and he paid for it. His battle fleet closed on the Courageous carrier fleet I had at sea south of Greece and both his BB groups within the fleet took hits in a CV interdiction attack during his move. His fleet then failed to locate my carrier fleet.

In my turn I sailed my Glorious carrier fleet to the battle zone and his sub attempted an interdiction but failed to find my fleet. I then attacked Italy's battle fleet with three carrier strikes and all three strikes found their target. In the final tally both his BB groups were sunk and a CL group was heavily damaged.

There are quite a few German bombers in range, but they are at extreme range and my carriers sit in two separate fleets, so I'm hoping he finds it difficult to locate them. If I'm lucky at least one carrier will remain unscathed to maintain naval control in the eastern Mediterranean. Truth be told though, I'm sweating bullets.

In Greece Germany crushed anything it attacked. I contemplated sending 2 or 3 full British Corps to assist, but since Crete was taken by invasion this turn (can't believe I miss-placed my CV by one hex, so no invasion intercept dammit) and the fact so much German air is in the area I opted to just send a division to guard Athens.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
The British swine have done nothing at all in this war and let the poor French take it in the chin and I am sure have the ability to intervene here and complicate a sketchy Greek invasion. It needs to happen fast or not at all.

LOL, had I not screwed up my CV placement (price you pay for doing zoomed out naval moves) and prevented the invasion at Crete, you'd have seen a virtual carpet of Brits digging foxholes in the mountains of Greece this turn. But I can't afford to risk it now as I'm sure Crete will be flooded with planes this turn.

Jim

[Flaviusx]

My bombers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, evidently. I took plenty of shoots and missed every one. Sigh. The Regia Marina is now down to light ships, too, but those are the fortunes of war. At least I still have the subs. And the light ships can escort shipments to Africa.

On a more positive note, you were discouraged from flooding Greece and now I am adjacent to Athens on two hexes and if you want to throw away a corps in Athens, that is fine by me.

[Jim D Burns]

30 August 1940

Well sending the division to guard Athens allows Greece to hold out for one more turn. Having its strength reduced to 80%, I pull it out and send it off to garrison Cairo. The remnants of the Greek army simply lack enough moves to get anywhere near Athens and I put an already shattered unit in the city.

With the Italian navy suffering the loss of two battleships, I think the threat of naval invasion in the eastern Mediterranean is significantly reduced. I should be able to start taking the isolated island possessions as soon as Britain can build a large enough airforce to compete with Germany for air superiority.

Looks like the next hotspot will be El Alamein so I begin re-mobilizing my troops. Neither Germany nor Italy has crossed the magic 10 hex range from Bengazi yet, but he has a lot of units east of Tobruk now. I'm confident I can hold Egypt, the British have been busy building up a good sized land force for defense. Now we start work on our airforce so we can begin to push back.