What makes a good opponent?

[AW1Steve]

I would greatly appreciate it if the Threadsters and forumites could take a moment a list some of the characteristics of people who have been their best opponents. What do you cherish in a opposite number? Thank you in advance. [:D][:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I would greatly appreciate it if the Threadsters and forumites could take a moment a list some of the characteristics of people who have been their best opponents. What do you cherish in a opposite number? Thank you in advance. [:D][:)]

warspite1

Well that's pretty simple..... someone even more incompetent at war gaming, meaning I can actually beat them. Sadly in almost 40 years of trying to win games across the military spectrum I've come across such an individual about 3 times....in total.....[X(]

[ITAKLinus]

Somebody who drinks at least how much I do.


And who gets pleasure from "stuff exploding", without thinking too much who is the owner.



A lot of strategic thoughts, possibly to share to some extent, but a general pleasure in the game whatever happens. I laughed a lot when recently I got 20k japanese killed in one attack I was doing in China. I got the same pleasure when the next turn 30k Chinese died in the same place during a second attack. My adversary the same. That's why I like playing with him.



Also, having roughly the same game knowledge helps a lot.



Last, but not least at all, the fantasy put in the game is something I really enjoy. I like people who are not predictable at all and when they fight, they fight hard. It makes every turn thrilling.


Of course, many players have a different approach. I am talking about what I do like in an enemy.



I can say also what I don't like:
1 - people willing to f@ck you continuously so that the game looks like the compliance I have to do for donors in my daily work...
2 - people recriminating for everything which they don't like (such as "ahhhh you bombed my newly conquered Miri with your Dutch bombers, YOU ARE AHISTORICAL AND GAMEY WE NEED HR!!!!!!" and stuff like that.
3 - cheaters / people not following HRs

More than everything, people who do their own magnificient plan in their minds and then they get angry and quit when you don't do something they expected. For example, I got a guy who fortified Noumea and company from day-1. He created a mega ultra super Maginot line there.
His idea was to bounce my offensive in the place and counterattack.

I instead conquered China and went for N-W Australia surprising him. His perfect plan failed miserably. Accused me of being gamey (after he didn't comply to HRs, btw!!!) and he left.
These players are to avoid completely. Once somebody starts with the cry of "you are a-historical!", raise your guard and open a thread in the "opponents wanted" area. That's my advice.
Of course, some completely foolish a-historical things can be somehow bad in many's eyes. I'm not speaking of that, I am speaking of little things driving the adversary mad with no reason.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

Somebody who drinks at least how much I do.


And who gets pleasure from "stuff exploding", without thinking too much who is the owner.



A lot of strategic thoughts, possibly to share to some extent, but a general pleasure in the game whatever happens. I laughed a lot when recently I got 20k japanese killed in one attack I was doing in China. I got the same pleasure when the next turn 30k Chinese died in the same place during a second attack. My adversary the same. That's why I like playing with him.



Also, having roughly the same game knowledge helps a lot.



Last, but not least at all, the fantasy put in the game is something I really enjoy. I like people who are not predictable at all and when they fight, they fight hard. It makes every turn thrilling.


Of course, many players have a different approach. I am talking about what I do like in an enemy.



I can say also what I don't like:
1 - people willing to f@ck you continuously so that the game looks like the compliance I have to do for donors in my daily work...
2 - people recriminating for everything which they don't like (such as "ahhhh you bombed my newly conquered Miri with your Dutch bombers, YOU ARE AHISTORICAL AND GAMEY WE NEED HR!!!!!!" and stuff like that.
3 - cheaters / people not following HRs

More than everything, people who do their own magnificient plan in their minds and then they get angry and quit when you don't do something they expected. For example, I got a guy who fortified Noumea and company from day-1. He created a mega ultra super Maginot line there.
His idea was to bounce my offensive in the place and counterattack.

I instead conquered China and went for N-W Australia surprising him. His perfect plan failed miserably. Accused me of being gamey (after he didn't comply to HRs, btw!!!) and he left.
These players are to avoid completely. Once somebody starts with the cry of "you are a-historical!", raise your guard and open a thread in the "opponents wanted" area. That's my advice.
Of course, some completely foolish a-historical things can be somehow bad in many's eyes. I'm not speaking of that, I am speaking of little things driving the adversary mad with no reason.

Boy I couldn't agree more! Of course it's historical. I don't play this game to pretend that I'm Admiral...., I play to pretend that I'm SMARTER than him![:D]

[GetAssista]

What makes a good opponent?
For games in general - creativity and playing for the process more than the result. Guys that would sacrifice fun for the ultimate winning are boring.
For WITP AE - commitment above anything else I think. It's hard to muddle through all the time consuming turns, with occasional setbacks and catastrophic defeats, with mistakes you once realized you've made long ago in the early stages and with no way to correct them. Hard to the point that I don't play PBEMs because I foresee commitment problems on my side [8D] I have the utmost respect for all the forumites here who go through their GC PBEMs for years, sometimes several campaigns simultaneously, writing regular AARs. It's like a second job

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL:
It's like a second job

It IS amazingly time consuming with high expectations. At times it feels like the PRIMARY job one has! An excellent opponent need to be understanding that his or her opponent has another life!

[kbfchicago]

Sense of humor through both favorable and unfavorable events

[Ian R]

An axis opponent who doesn't ghost you in early 1943.

[IdahoNYer]

GetAssista hits the target here:

[/quote]

For games in general - creativity and playing for the process more than the result. Guys that would sacrifice fun for the ultimate winning are boring.

Great short summary - its all about the journey! With a WiTP PBEM campaign, that journey WILL take years.

[durnedwolf]

It's a game. I want someone that has a sense of humor and doesn't get their britches in a bunch when things go south for them.

I'm still in the workforce so for now I look for an opponent that is fine with turns being a little spotty. But someday I'm gunna retire from the workforce and become a professional gamer - lol.

[sh0nyu]

Well I think both opponents must be fair in their style. On the other hand it is nice to have a stubborn opponent not willing to give up if his strategy does not develop properly.

I take part in a game as Allied Commander. We had a heavy carrier battle near Milne Bay on Dec 27th 1941. This battle developed accidently because the Japanese Player took Ambon and Namlea really early. Since he already took Rabaul and Kavieng he decided to pass Torres Strait with a two carrier group. I managed to ambush his force with CAs and CLs and was able to damage Shokaku (heavy damage, heavy fires). Then my cruiser force was mauled heavy by his aircraft and heavy escorts. Since the US carriers were near by I tried to intrecept his heavy escort (thought the carriers were hurrying to Rabaul). First I got a heavy attack from his carrier aircraft. Result: two bomb hits (250kg)on Saratoga (one no explosion), one hit on Lex (60kg) - no more damage than 6 points sys on Saratoga and 4 sys on Lex... pure luck!

The American carrier force retaliated and managed to hit Zuikaku (heavy fires, heavy damage), Ryujo (heavy fires, heavy damage, Ammo Storage) and Zuiho (on fire). We made some more turns and my opponent discovers that he had serious difficulties with the Japanese economy (first time player for Japan).

Long story short: I suggested that we go on until the holidays and he may consider if he wants to start over. I had a really good start and I know he will not make the same mistake twice (unfortunatelly). But The game is a long time engagement - and I would like to see both opponents having fun with this game. He took just half an hour to answer: No, we are going on.

That's what I mean. My opponent is stubborn enough to suffer the consequences of his mistakes (same with me) and I think it is good to give him the possibility to exit out and start over during an early stage of the game. Okay... sorry for this wall of text, just my 2 ct

[ITAKLinus]

ORIGINAL: sh0nyu

Well I think both opponents must be fair in their style. On the other hand it is nice to have a stubborn opponent not willing to give up if his strategy does not develop properly.

I take part in a game as Allied Commander. We had a heavy carrier battle near Milne Bay on Dec 27th 1941. This battle developed accidently because the Japanese Player took Ambon and Namlea really early. Since he already took Rabaul and Kavieng he decided to pass Torres Strait with a two carrier group. I managed to ambush his force with CAs and CLs and was able to damage Shokaku (heavy damage, heavy fires). Then my cruiser force was mauled heavy by his aircraft and heavy escorts. Since the US carriers were near by I tried to intrecept his heavy escort (thought the carriers were hurrying to Rabaul). First I got a heavy attack from his carrier aircraft. Result: two bomb hits (250kg)on Saratoga (one no explosion), one hit on Lex (60kg) - no more damage than 6 points sys on Saratoga and 4 sys on Lex... pure luck!

The American carrier force retaliated and managed to hit Zuikaku (heavy fires, heavy damage), Ryujo (heavy fires, heavy damage, Ammo Storage) and Zuiho (on fire). We made some more turns and my opponent discovers that he had serious difficulties with the Japanese economy (first time player for Japan).

Long story short: I suggested that we go on until the holidays and he may consider if he wants to start over. I had a really good start and I know he will not make the same mistake twice (unfortunatelly). But The game is a long time engagement - and I would like to see both opponents having fun with this game. He took just half an hour to answer: No, we are going on.

That's what I mean. My opponent is stubborn enough to suffer the consequences of his mistakes (same with me) and I think it is good to give him the possibility to exit out and start over during an early stage of the game. Okay... sorry for this wall of text, just my 2 ct

Oh you stubborn Germans [:D][:D][&o][&o]


I completely agree with your state of mind. I think you touched very relevant elements, especially the idea of "suffering the consequences of his mistakes" but, being on the other side, giving the option to just surrender.
Especially for Japan, it can be difficoult. It's hard to come back after a lost carrier fight. Still, it's important to pay for the mistakes because it's the only way in which someone can actually learn and improve, avoiding these mistakes in the next game. If it wouldn't be the case, everybody would simply begin a game and then surrender after the first problem, making games both short and qualitatively mediocre.
If you pay for your mistakes, you think twice before getting into mad positions and you grow as a player.


Finally, I guess that one of the most important elements is the willingness to improve as a player rather than just winning.

[Encircled]

Sense of humour essential

And above to just enjoy playing the game as a game, whether winning or losing.

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

I'm still in the workforce so for now I look for an opponent that is fine with turns being a little spotty. But someday I'm gunna retire from the workforce and become a professional gamer - lol.

Don't kid yourself durnedwolf, I'm retired and it's still difficult to find the time given all the other things that one must do. This is especially true if you have a "honey, do" list MILES long.

[HansBolter]

Some one who NEVER quits, even when I am sieging Tokyo.

[rustysi]

It's like a second job

Well, they always say, 'work at something you enjoy'.[;)]

But someday I'm gunna retire from the workforce and become a professional gamer - lol.

Yup, that's what I thought. Life seem to still get in the way.[:D]

Some one who NEVER quits, even when I am sieging Tokyo.

Crap. I hope the game would be over of its own accord by then.[:'(]

[dasboot1960]

I would think it an honorable enough Japanese capitulation if Tokyo were under siege. Not at all like quitting at the first sign of impending doom. I think I'd be more than happy with any IJ oppo who played that far

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: dasboot1960

I would think it an honorable enough Japanese capitulation if Tokyo were under siege. Not at all like quitting at the first sign of impending doom. I think I'd be more than happy with any IJ oppo who played that far

True enough, but when you are that close to playing out something that has never happened in a PBEM, it would be nice to play it through for science!

[HansBolter]

The thread starter never said anything about PBEM.

I'm obviously referring to the AI here folks.

The AI can be counted on to never quit.

Best opponent ever.

I'm sieging Tokyo now in March of 1946.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The thread starter never said anything about PBEM.

I'm obviously referring to the AI here folks.

The AI can be counted on to never quit.

Best opponent ever.

I'm sieging Tokyo now in March of 1946.

Yeah, but the discussion had got into when a player in PBEM can call it quits and your previous comment seemed to say you would want an opponent to stick with it until Tokyo was taken. I was just saying I can see why that would be interesting to play out. I understand your AI hasn't quit yet and it's still a tough grind. I do want to see your progress and battle post-mortem for that interesting situation. [:)]